Delivery of double deck electric buses

[MotCO]

On Friday I saw a new BYD/Alexander double decker bus being driven down the A1, presumably on delivery to Metroline in London. Given that the bus can only travel 190 miles in urban traffic on a single charge, and that travel at speed on the A1 presumably depletes the power more quickly, do the buses need to stop to be topped up somewhere? Or is there an overnight stop? Recharging takes 4 hours according to Coach & Bus Week.

Are the buses being built at Scarborough or Falkirk? Scarborough is 234 miles from Willesden, and Falkirk is 418 miles.

 

[alangla]

Scarborough presumably? From what I’ve seen, the usual route from Falkirk to London appears to be M876, M80, M73, M74, M6 but I could be wrong
If the bus can recharge off a standard car charger or a Tesla charger then pretty much every services will have a pillar it can charge at.

 

[carlberry]

Scarborough presumably? From what I’ve seen, the usual route from Falkirk to London appears to be M876, M80, M73, M74, M6 but I could be wrong
If the bus can recharge off a standard car charger or a Tesla charger then pretty much every services will have a pillar it can charge at.

I don't know if the charger spec is the same however most of the chargers I've seen at service stations are in locations that you'd struggle to get a bus into.

 

[alangla]

I don't know if the charger spec is the same however most of the chargers I've seen at service stations are in locations that you'd struggle to get a bus into.

Good point. I’d forgotten about the width restrictions/high kerbs on the car park entrances etc.

 

[SCH117X]

Possibly made use of operators depots en route. Range is quoted as 190 miles so playing safe from Scarborough they could top up at York (First or Transdev) and then again at Nottingham (CT4N) for example.

 

[Robertj21a]

On Friday I saw a new BYD/Alexander double decker bus being driven down the A1, presumably on delivery to Metroline in London. Given that the bus can only travel 190 miles in urban traffic on a single charge, and that travel at speed on the A1 presumably depletes the power more quickly, do the buses need to stop to be topped up somewhere? Or is there an overnight stop? Recharging takes 4 hours according to Coach & Bus Week.

Are the buses being built at Scarborough or Falkirk? Scarborough is 234 miles from Willesden, and Falkirk is 418 miles.

Brought a spare battery with them.......??

 

[MotCO]

Possibly made use of operators depots en route. Range is quoted as 190 miles so playing safe from Scarborough they could top up at York (First or Transdev) and then again at Nottingham (CT4N) for example.

Would these companies have any spare charging points - I would have assumed that they needed all of them to top up their own buses. It would also mean that only one or two buses at most could be delivered each day.

 

[goldisgood]

Would these companies have any spare charging points - I would have assumed that they needed all of them to top up their own buses. It would also mean that only one or two buses at most could be delivered each day.

Could they potentially be used during the day when the buses would be out in service?

 

[MotCO]

Could they potentially be used during the day when the buses would be out in service?

D'oh! Hadn't thought of that! But would that mean overnight deliveries? I saw one during the day.

 

[borage]

Presumably the range is increased a bit (not enough to make much difference) as the bus isn't weighed down by passengers.

 

[goldisgood]

Could the buses be more fuel efficient on the motorway? As they travel 190 miles in urban traffic, maybe they can get a bit further on interurban work.

 

[MotCO]

Could the buses be more fuel efficient on the motorway? As they travel 190 miles in urban traffic, maybe they can get a bit further on interurban work.

I would have thought that higher speed motorway driving was less efficient than slower urban driving, but I am not speaking with any particular knowledge, and I accept that they are unladen. Route-one is now quoting a 150 mile range. They also state that charging is undertaken using a BYD-supplied free-standing unit, so maybe one is on board the delivery runs - it depends how big it is.

 

[edwin_m]

I would have thought that higher speed motorway driving was less efficient than slower urban driving, but I am not speaking with any particular knowledge, and I accept that they are unladen. Route-one is now quoting a 150 mile range. They also state that charging is undertaken using a BYD-supplied free-standing unit, so maybe one is on board the delivery runs - it depends how big it is.

They'd still have to find somewhere to plug it in.

 

[dazzler]

Would these companies have any spare charging points - I would have assumed that they needed all of them to top up their own buses. It would also mean that only one or two buses at most could be delivered each day.

York has several out of town locations with chargers that will definitely charge a single deck bus, presumably they would work for double deck as well. For example, the Park&Ride (P&R) sites at Monks Cross and Poppleton have electric bus P&R services which charge during the layover. The University of York Campus service UB1 is usually operated by an electric single deck bus as well, often one of the P&R fleet if the dedicated bus is undergoing maintenance. This usually charges in the early afternoon layover at the "Chargemaster" car (& bus) charging point in the turning circle outside York Sport Village (just round the corner from Grimston Bar P&R and the A64/A166/A1079 Junction) - sorry, not got a picture of an electric bus on charge there, I'll see what I can manage at work tomorrow!

 

[Busaholic]

The rumourmongers will say the auxiliary diesel engine kicks in!

 

[MotCO]

I've rethought this, and may have an answer. Would it be possible to deliver these buses in relay?

Thus Bus 1 and Driver A take the first bus to the first charging point (Nottingham or York, for example) and use the garage facilties to charge during the day. Driver A returns home by other means. Driver B brings Bus 2 down the next day, drops off Bus 2 and picks up a charged Bus 1 for the next leg, leaving Bus 2 to be recharged during the rest of the day. Diver C brings down Bus 3 the next day and picks up a charged Bus 2 etc, etc. Would that work?

 

[edwin_m]

The other option would be for the driver to drive during the night and rest in a hotel during the day while the bus was charging at a facility that would otherwise not be used.

 

[MotCO]

The other option would be for the driver to drive during the night and rest in a hotel during the day while the bus was charging at a facility that would otherwise not be used.

However, I saw one on delivery during daylight hours.

 

[SCH117X]

Found a Route One article re the Enviro 200ev's that states "In an indication of the buses’ capabilities, they are being delivered from ADL’s Larbert plant – over 400 miles away – under their own power. ‘Pit stops’ at the manufacturer’s support network sites along the way are made to recharge."
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Vehicles/Enter_the_electric_Enviro_as_ADL_and_BYD_set_out
Could explain the new bus that toppled over in Hinckley earlier in the week
" A double decker bus has toppled over on its side in the front garden of a home. It happened outside the New Plough Inn on Leicester Road, Hinckley, shortly before 20:00 on Tuesday. No-one was on the bus at the time. Leicestershire Fire and Rescue Service have said the bus ended up on its side "following hydraulic equipment failure"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/localnews/2646867-Hinckley/0

 

[Ken H]

they should tow a trailer with a diesel gen set to power the bus!

 

[Robertj21a]

Found a Route One article re the Enviro 200ev's that states "In an indication of the buses’ capabilities, they are being delivered from ADL’s Larbert plant – over 400 miles away – under their own power. ‘Pit stops’ at the manufacturer’s support network sites along the way are made to recharge."
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Vehicles/Enter_the_electric_Enviro_as_ADL_and_BYD_set_out
Could explain the new bus that toppled over in Hinckley earlier in the week
" A double decker bus has toppled over on its side in the front garden of a home. It happened outside the New Plough Inn on Leicester Road, Hinckley, shortly before 20:00 on Tuesday. No-one was on the bus at the time. Leicestershire Fire and Rescue Service have said the bus ended up on its side "following hydraulic equipment failure"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/localnews/2646867-Hinckley/0

Wasn't the Hinckley turnover a Hong Kong diesel ?

 

[Man of Kent]

Wasn't the Hinckley turnover a Hong Kong diesel ?

No, it was probably a bus that had been at the nearby MIRA proving grounds.
There are clear photos of the underside on the local paper website:
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/gallery/pictures-bus-tips-onto-side-2918171
which might help to identify its method of propulsion.

 

[MotCO]

No, it was probably a bus that had been at the nearby MIRA proving grounds.
There are clear photos of the underside on the local paper website:
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/gallery/pictures-bus-tips-onto-side-2918171
which might help to identify its method of propulsion.

It looks like a Wrightbus, not an ADL product.

 

[Robertj21a]

No, it was probably a bus that had been at the nearby MIRA proving grounds.
There are clear photos of the underside on the local paper website:
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/gallery/pictures-bus-tips-onto-side-2918171
which might help to identify its method of propulsion.

....buut it was still a diesel for Hong Kong !!

 

[edwin_m]

No, it was probably a bus that had been at the nearby MIRA proving grounds.

Presumably it failed the tilt test!

 

[PeterC]

I would have thought that higher speed motorway driving was less efficient than slower urban driving, but I am not speaking with any particular knowledge, and I accept that they are unladen. Route-one is now quoting a 150 mile range. They also state that charging is undertaken using a BYD-supplied free-standing unit, so maybe one is on board the delivery runs - it depends how big it is.

I don't know about large commercial vehicles but my ICE car gets about 50% better milage cruising at a steady 50 compared with urban driving.

 

[JetBlast]

....buut it was still a diesel for Hong Kong !!

I thought you Hong Kong bus had a rear twin axle?

 

[Jordan Adam]

No, it was probably a bus that had been at the nearby MIRA proving grounds.
There are clear photos of the underside on the local paper website:
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/gallery/pictures-bus-tips-onto-side-2918171
which might help to identify its method of propulsion.

It's a KMB specification Wright Streetdeck Demonstrator, in short fully diesel. The reason it tipped over was because there was passengers weights in the upper deck and the recovery operator hadn't been informed.

I thought you Hong Kong bus had a rear twin axle?

Hong Kong have very strict weight restrictions when it comes to double decker buses. Due to the requirement of A/C and the fact the city has some very steep hills the buses used there require bigger engines. In the past the bigger engines meant that the buses required an additional axle, otherwise the rear axle would end up overweight thus not complying with HK regulations. However ADL and Wright have been trying to develop two axle deckers with larger engines for the HK market as they could prove more fuel efficient. ADL kicked it off with the 8.9 Litre Cummins ISLe engined Enviro400MMC for Euro5, (UK equivalent has a 6.7 Litre engine). And now Wright are joining the race.

It's actually quite fitting that the bus in question initially failed it's weight tests due to the rear axle being overloaded, caused by the larger engine. As such Wright had to reduce the certified capacity by removing a row of seats on the upper deck.

 

[randyrippley]

all the KMB buses I've seen go through Heysham in the last few months have been tri-axles. There was one on the M6 last week

as for recharging, someone in an earlier thread suggested Alexander were using Stagecoach depots to top up - makes sense if you think how close the two companies are.