Depot driver to mainline

[Karmakanik]

If a depot driver transfers to a mainline position within the same TOC, presumably all that is required is route learning?
Also, whilst learning, would the driver be paid at the depot driver rate?

 

[notadriver]

If a depot driver transfers to a mainline position within the same TOC, presumably all that is required is route learning?
Also, whilst learning, would the driver be paid at the depot driver rate?

With the exception of Greater Anglia and East Midlands trains I would think you have to do the whole drivers course from scratch. Some companies may allow you to keep your depot driver rate but it's doubtful to be honest.

 

[evoluzione]

If a depot driver transfers to a mainline position within the same TOC, presumably all that is required is route learning?
Also, whilst learning, would the driver be paid at the depot driver rate?

MDD's usually have minimal rules training, but have really good traction knowledge.

At Northern MDDs progressing to mainline do the full new drivers course, granted the first 4 weeks or so you already know (PTS, basic traction etc) but after that it's all rules and practical handling.

Still takes the same 7 - 10 months to pass out, or longer depending on depot at Northern.

 

[Karmakanik]

Thanks guys. So it would be starting training from scratch, but with some inside knowledge.

I thought I read a while back that guards progressing/moving to trainee driver within a TOC kept the guards grade salary. Is this correct and does it apply to depot drivers?

 

[chrisdmadd]

I'm just waiting for 'someone' to come and ask why on earth you would consider leaving the MDD role once you had it.

 

[High Dyke]

I'm just waiting for 'someone' to come and ask why on earth you would consider leaving the MDD role once you had it.

Perhaps they're showing consideration in creating a vacancy...

 

[chrisdmadd]

Perhaps they're showing consideration in creating a vacancy...

Surely never in a million?!

 

[Beveridges]

Firstly why on Earth are you considering leaving this exceptional role?
Do you realise how hard MDD jobs are to come by?

If a depot driver transfers to a mainline position within the same TOC, presumably all that is required is route learning?
Also, whilst learning, would the driver be paid at the depot driver rate?

What TOC is this as the answer is yes at some companies and no at others, but in general, most TOCs have no "system" in place to make transition from MDD to Mainline any quicker, as few would consider leaving.
Of cause there are TOCs that have this "system" (Greater Anglia being one) but these companies often make the MDD role undesirable by offering a lower salary and worse T and Cs for the MDD position so that they actually have a motive for going mainline.

 

[Legzr1]

This thread does well in demonstrating the real gulf between shed driver and proper mainline driver.

The fact that few companies have a direct line of promotion from one to the other and, even when they do there's a whole new course to go through going over full rules & regulations ( shed drivers probably cover 10% of what's necessary) then it's pretty obvious why they're classed as two entirely different roles (with corresponding salaries and responsibilities).

There are freight companies out there that will look to shed drivers when mainline vacancies become available (I personally know five or six that have taken this route) and they maintain their current wage until passing out on the mainline.
What's funny is they all thought it was an easy step from shed to mainline - after all, they've done rules, traction and have a little bit of route knowledge ( around 10 miles for some and closer to 100 yards for those working for small TOCs) - their expressions after a few weeks of TBW and SLW tell the story lol!

Some (ok, one I know of...) claim to love the shed whereas in my experience almost all look at it as a stepping stone to better things then become frustrated at being stuck in the role waiting for opportunities that never seem to come.

With that in mind, if the opportunity arises and means you take a little short-term loss of wages then I say go for it.
Who knows, that loss of £10K (for example) in the first year puts you well on track to make upwards of £80K (inc. overtime naturally) if you pick the right company.

Good luck with it.

 

[JAMBO]

Knew someone would make such a silly comment! Why on earth would he want to leave this exceptional role? :cry: Where shall we start, i don't think I have that long!

 

[Beveridges]

"Where shall we start"??? I tell you now I don't know where we shall start because I can't even think of one reason! Hence why I asked the OP such a question; and be warned, if you ever do leave MDD Driving and regret it and want to come back, its not easy. Such vacancies are always very few and far between, as there is about 50X fewer jobs in this grade than there is mainline.

 

[Willie mcbeath]

"Where shall we start"??? I tell you now I don't know where we shall start because I can't even think of one reason! Hence why I asked the OP such a question; and be warned, if you ever do leave MDD Driving and regret it and want to come back, its not easy. Such vacancies are always very few and far between, as there is about 50X fewer jobs in this grade than there is mainline.

Any depots I know of with depot drivers
It's all drivers that either want to step up to a mainline driver or its a mainline driver that unfortunately couldn't do the job and was lucky enough to get reduced to that job.

 

[JAMBO]

Believe me i couldnt see anyone jumping back! :roll: Why would anyone want to make a move down the ladder in your career on the railway? Mainline equals Career progression, doors open, they may well be fed up of shunting around a yard all day and want to experience a speed greater than 5mph. They want a challenge, shall we carry on! Your totally deluded pal it's scary the way the world looks in your head!

 

[Beveridges]

Any depots I know of with depot drivers
It's all drivers that either want to step up to a mainline driver or its a mainline driver that unfortunately couldn't do the job and was lucky enough to get reduced to that job.

"Reduced" is the wrong word but you'll find any mainline driver who has incidents and ends uo on the shed is very very lucky and they're fussy on who they take on now at the sheds. But they do take on "some" hence another reason why the job is so damn hard to get into for those who try.
Not good enough for the shed? Or no vacancy at the shed? Then chances are that ex-driver will be offered a job as a conductor / despatcher / booking office / gateline / station supervisor / etc.

Also a lot of Depots do not have any mainline wannabes. , try finding a single one of them at some depots.

Becoming a depot driver requires that you pass the same app form and psycho tests as mainline. Interview differs slightly but your competing for FAR fewer jobs, a MDDs job is so damn hard to get that if you ever do make it as an MDD then you'll be also capable of getting a job in the much more numerous mainline grade.

The MDD role will always suit people who want to drive trains but have a variety of other tasks to do as well, it will also suit people who might find the main line role too sedantory and lonely, it also suits people who prefer working outdoors.
They are too different roles so chances are one who likes one will dislike the other, it works both ways.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Believe me i couldnt see anyone jumping back! :roll: Why would anyone want to make a move down the ladder in your career on the railway? Mainline equals Career progression, doors open, they may well be fed up of shunting around a yard all day and want to experience a speed greater than 5mph. They want a challenge, shall we carry on! Your totally deluded pal it's scary the way the world looks in your head!

There is no official "ladder" apart from management grades.

There is no superiority in these roles. In operational roles, whether its Fitters, Guards, Signallers, Mainline Drivers or MDDs, they are all seperate, not one of these is higher on the ladder than the other!

 

[JAMBO]

It's comical you actually think like this! Think we all need some of that stuff your taking. I actually think you are convincing yourself now about this fantasy you have in your head

 

[Karmakanik]

Thanks to everyone who has replied, I appreciate your input. I don't mean to stir up the usual hornets nest of depot v mainline driving but I find myself in an enviable position. - I have been given a start date for a TOC about 35-40 minutes drive away but have recently been contacted by a different TOC I have been on hold with for some time and offered a depot driver position. This depot is about 10 minutes walk from my house.
It is a fantastic position to be in but a difficult decision!

 

[Willie mcbeath]

Thanks to everyone who has replied, I appreciate your input. I don't mean to stir up the usual hornets nest of depot v mainline driving but I find myself in an enviable position. - I have been given a start date for a TOC about 35-40 minutes drive away but have recently been contacted by a different TOC I have been on hold with for some time and offered a depot driver position. This depot is about 10 minutes walk from my house.
It is a fantastic position to be in but a difficult decision!

For the sake of half an hour drive defo go for the mainline job, it's a no brainier.

 

[chrisdmadd]

Thanks to everyone who has replied, I appreciate your input. I don't mean to stir up the usual hornets nest of depot v mainline driving but I find myself in an enviable position. - I have been given a start date for a TOC about 35-40 minutes drive away but have recently been contacted by a different TOC I have been on hold with for some time and offered a depot driver position. This depot is about 10 minutes walk from my house.
It is a fantastic position to be in but a difficult decision!

If you have been offered mainline then take it, getting from depot driver to mainline could be difficult, I'm just about to start mainline driving at a depot 50 minutes away and leave my current depot which is 10 minutes away.

I plan to make my way back to my local depot in the years to come and you could do the same.

Depot driving sure can be varied in my depot but they are finding it hard to get mainline and the pay isn't great.

 

[JAMBO]

I will second that, you will regret not taking it, the chance may not come round again.

 

[Karmakanik]

If it was just the travelling then yes, it would be a no brainer.
But I seem to recall that it only takes about a couple months instead of 12 to qualify as a depot driver so I could be back on decent money sooner and if I kept that salary while training as a mainline driver, the local depot is more appealing.

If I had to go back to the regular trainee salary however, it becomes much less viable.

Think the commute will be a good excuse to buy a nice shiny new motorbike in the spring!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I will second that, you will regret not taking it, the chance may not come round again.

Single biggest factor in my decision making!

 

[Beveridges]

Go for the depot drivers job. There will be plenty of opportunities for mainline if you really want to throw away that rare MDD position. There are loads of mainline drivers, but hardly any MDDs!
Don't forget a lot of starter jobs on the mainline are normally dominated tedious "all stops" branch line passenger work, is the job you got lined up one of them ?
Don't forget this forum is very anti MDD for some reason ? Maybe you'll get a more balanced view on the "other" railway forum (railchat). The general opinion on here is not the same as the one I hear in the real world.

 

[JAMBO]

And don't forget that some on this forum make out that MDD is the greatest job on the railway even though they ain't passed the stop board at the end of the yard. Envious is the word i would use. Hopefully you have some common sense and listen to the drivers advice. If you have the chance to go mainline then snap it up.

 

[TOCDriver]

And don't forget that some on this forum make out that MDD is the greatest job on the railway even though they ain't passed the stop board at the end of the yard. Envious is the word i would use. Hopefully you have some common sense and listen to the drivers advice. If you have the chance to go mainline then snap it up.

Personally, I would do what's right for you. Both have their advantages and disadvantages - only you know what's right for you!

 

[Beveridges]

And don't forget that some on this forum make out that MDD is the greatest job on the railway even though they ain't passed the stop board at the end of the yard. Envious is the word i would use. Hopefully you have some common sense and listen to the drivers advice. If you have the chance to go mainline then snap it up.

Envious? I'm not envious of anyone, I wouldn't swap my MDD role for any other job.

TOCDriver's post talks the most sense

 

[chrisdmadd]

If it was just the travelling then yes, it would be a no brainer.
But I seem to recall that it only takes about a couple months instead of 12 to qualify as a depot driver so I could be back on decent money sooner and if I kept that salary while training as a mainline driver, the local depot is more appealing.

Very sensible approach, go MDD get an understanding of the traction and handling at low speeds, get half decent money and then train to be mainline when the job comes up. BUT this is simply not the way it works, I can honestly say I was in your exact position two years ago, look back at my posts.... I'm so pleased I didn't go for MDD job because the MDDs at my place feel trapped and can't get out. Rarely do mainline jobs come up in my area but in the time I've been at my depot I've seen 3 or 4 MDD roles come up.
It's such a hard decision for anyone to make but only you can make it, if you want mainline enough you will get it, I just still say if you have both options available to you take the one that's better paid and has more responsibilities. The fact that your training on mainline takes 4 times as long as MDD surely says a lot.

 

[bezzer]

If a depot driver transfers to a mainline position within the same TOC, presumably all that is required is route learning?
Also, whilst learning, would the driver be paid at the depot driver rate?

To answer you original question. At GA, depot and mainline driver's initially train together to look at basic rules and traction. After about 3 months depot driver's go to their depots, undertake training there and pass out as Depot driver's. Then if they want too they go to the bottom of the waiting list for a mainline position.

Once they get to the top of the list they then have to go back to the training school for more rules training, carry out front end turns, undertake simulator assessments, and then do their mainline driving hours (I think the same a s a mainline driver), then have a week of assessment before passing out. They will also look at the principals of route learning. Then you will have your NQD 1 period at the probationers salary level and then after a year will got to full whack.

If you are a depot driver and want to get out quicker to the mainline with GA you could put your name down for a transfer to Chingford, Bishop's Stortford or Cambridge on the West Anglia side as we do not have depot driver's.

 

[badassunicorn]

^ correct! I'm a DD with GA, and yeah we do all the same training as mainline drivers who go straight in like on the west, just without 3 modules I think it is. We still have to learn all about SLW, TBW etc etc just without stuff like level crossings.
Although I do quite enjoy my job, theres no way I would be enjoying it as much if I knew that this was my job forever. £25k for doing night shifts (mainline don't have them), running round all day long pulling points and freeing your a$$ off at 3am doing a diesel shunt in the ******ing rain is not what I want to be doing all my life. Don't get me wrong, I really do like my job and the people I work with, but in my view it is a natural progression to go from DD to mainline driver. The amount of traction knowledge we have is far superior to many mainline drivers, as we handle the units at their worst and often in pieces with EBS, TIS and gawd knows what else.
You get a good grounding as a DD, I can pretty much couple/uncouple/prep and fault find in my sleep the amount of times I do it in a week.
As the AOM described it when I had my interview, he likes to think of the DD position as a kind of drivers apprenticeship, whereby you get grounded in traction and the railway in general before progressing up to mainline money.
But at the end of the day, being a depot driver is a darn sight better then most jobs out there, good money (for starting anyway), good time off and benefits, not that hard work and most of all a good laugh!

 

[Beveridges]

, what part of the country are you in?
If its a location where mainline jobs come up regularly then if you accept the MDDs position it will be easy to move to mainline if you want to, so nothing to lose.

In my area it is easy, any MDD who wants mainline gets it in a matter of months. Most don't move however, as they chose MDD because they wanted to be an MDD, not use it as a stepping stone.

It depends what suits you. Go for MDD if you prefer:
- driving for short periods and have other duties thrown in as well
- unpredictability, you don't even know what the next hour will bring
- lots of problem solving and multi tasking as things go wrong regularly
- working outdoors
- lots of walking and manual work, not so much sitting around
- working as part of a team
- working nights most of the time
- more relaxed working environment, rarely see management or the public

Go for mainline (passenger) if you prefer:
- a more predictable day, you normally follow a diagram and it is rare for anything to go wrong
- driving for hours at a time, and not doing much else other than driving or having a break
- getting to go to different places rather than stuck at the same depot(s) all the time
- sitting down most of the time, stuck in a cab with little opportunity to leave outside of breaks
- working alone
- having very varied start/finish times including "lots" of very early morning starts
- like working with the public and don't mind having lots of managers around

Of cause you can always try MDD first and if you don't like it then go mainline there isnt really a risk unless vacancies are rare in your area.
Chances are you'll like one or the other as they are opposites in many ways as you can see.

 

[TOCDriver]

, what part of the country are you in?
If its a location where mainline jobs come up regularly then if you accept the MDDs position it will be easy to move to mainline if you want to, so nothing to lose.

In my area it is easy, any MDD who wants mainline gets it in a matter of months. Most don't move however, as they chose MDD because they wanted to be an MDD, not use it as a stepping stone.

It depends what suits you. Go for MDD if you prefer:
- driving for short periods and have other duties thrown in as well
- unpredictability, you don't even know what the next hour will bring
- lots of problem solving and multi tasking as things go wrong regularly
- working outdoors
- lots of walking and manual work, not so much sitting around
- working as part of a team
- working nights most of the time
- more relaxed working environment, rarely see management or the public

Go for mainline (passenger) if you prefer:
- a more predictable day, you normally follow a diagram and it is rare for anything to go wrong
- driving for hours at a time, and not doing much else other than driving or having a break
- getting to go to different places rather than stuck at the same depot(s) all the time
- sitting down most of the time, stuck in a cab with little opportunity to leave outside of breaks
- working alone
- having very varied start/finish times including "lots" of very early morning starts
- like working with the public and don't mind having lots of managers around

Of cause you can always try MDD first and if you don't like it then go mainline there isnt really a risk unless vacancies are rare in your area.
Chances are you'll like one or the other as they are opposites in many ways as you can see.

Good post is that. I can see the attraction in MDD, particularly on nice summer nights but not so much cold winter ones. It's much better for keeping you physically fit too. As for me, I'm a lazy so and so who likes warm interiors

 

[notadriver]

It's the night working that puts me off to be honest. In the bus industry the equivalent of MDD is definitely a step up from a driver and the pay almost equal too.