Derailment at Kirkby (Merseyside) - 13/03/2021

[Falcon1200]

At our TOC drivers must not use the GSMR, PA or cab-cab unless in an emergency. If the signaller calls you on the move, you bring your train to a stand at the first suitable location and call them back (or pick the handset up if they're still there).

As a matter of interest, did the same rule apply in pre-GSMR days, ie with NRN ? I ask because Control was required to make NRN Test Calls, in theory from every single Base Station at least once a month, to make sure the system was working and also so that every Controller was able to immediately make an Emergency Call if needed. I don't ever recall a Driver stopping their train in such circumstances !

 

[SJN]

Cab to cab? Is it a TOC with guards? If so that's bonkers. As a guard I use my route knowledge to determine when/if to call the driver, with them having the ultimate discretion of whether to answer or not.

If I need to talk to the driver I don't expect to have to bring the train a stand first to do that in every circumstance.

Yes. At my TOC we have guards and they’re instructed not to call us except in an emergency.

 

[ComUtoR]

As a matter of interest, did the same rule apply in pre-GSMR days, ie with NRN ? I ask because Control was required to make NRN Test Calls, in theory from every single Base Station at least once a month, to make sure the system was working and also so that every Controller was able to immediately make an Emergency Call if needed. I don't ever recall a Driver stopping their train in such circumstances !

Pre GSMR, or more correctly pre this new rule for radio protocol, Drivers would be on the phone to the Signaller and sail underneath the red, or through a platform, trip TPWS, etc etc.

Thank Jebus the railway has moved on since the 'good old days'

 

[skyhigh]

Cab to cab? Is it a TOC with guards? If so that's bonkers. As a guard I use my route knowledge to determine when/if to call the driver, with them having the ultimate discretion of whether to answer or not.

If I need to talk to the driver I don't expect to have to bring the train a stand first to do that in every circumstance.

Yes, it is a TOC with guards. In reality cab-cab is used on the move where suitable, but it is stated as banned in company instructions.

(For what it's worth, I did exactly the same as you when I was a guard).

 

[43066]

At our TOC drivers must not use the GSMR, PA or cab-cab unless in an emergency. If the signaller calls you on the move, you bring your train to a stand at the first suitable location and call them back (or pick the handset up if they're still there).

I imagine the signallers in my area are aware of this - I only ever get a 'Contact Signaller' message, they never call us unexpectedly.

Have to say that sounds like a crazy arrangement! Quite a few times I’ve been called on the move by a signaller, guard with important (although sub emergency level) information. Or equally needed to call them with similar. It’s easy enough to simply not answer the call if you’re focussed on stopping at a red etc.

Both TOCs I’ve worked for (one DOO, one guarded) have allowed discretion which is quite right in my view.

 

[LowLevel]

Have to say that sounds like a crazy arrangement! Quite a few times I’ve been called on the move by a signaller, guard with important (although sub emergency level) information. Or equally needed to call them with similar. It’s easy enough to simply not answer the call if you’re focussed on stopping at a red etc.

Both TOCs I’ve worked for (one DOO, one guarded) have allowed discretion which is quite right in my view.

Well indeed. Does pay to be careful though, there was a SPAD in Birmingham the other day where the driver misread the signal on the adjacent line whilst on the GSMR to the box whilst driving.

Personally my preference is always to walk forward to the front panel at station stops where it's practical and pass information through the window face to face of I have time, but I do use the cab to cab on occasion.

Confirming diversionary route knowledge for the control during disruption and advising of set swaps, early cancellation etc are all things I'd do when I'd assess it to be reasonable safe to.

My own personal rules are not to use it except in an emergency in complicated areas or those where I know the signals are close together - so for example I wouldn't use it from Hazel Grove to Trafford Park through Stockport and Manchester. Also not whilst braking is occurring for any reason.