Derailment between Hersham & Walton on Thames (04/03)

[MotCO]

Should there be a walk-through of the possession site or a ride through on a small truck (thinking of push-up/ push downs trucks as featured on the St Trinians Great Train Robbery!) at the completion of the works to verify that each track is clear for trains?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Should there be a walk-through of the possession site or a ride through on a small truck (thinking of push-up/ push downs trucks as featured on the St Trinians Great Train Robbery!) at the completion of the works to verify that each track is clear for trains?

Yes each worksite owner should do that. There is no requirement to check other areas within the possession that never had a worksite other than to remove detonators and stop boards at the limits.
The problem here is this could result in a requirement for first train to pass through under caution and probably without passengers if we aren't careful as the trust in people to deliver what is required of them is being lost.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

When I was part of the construction team in NR capital delivery I would always walk through with the Coss to make sure it was safe for the passage of trains before handback. Got a few moans about doing it but it always happened.

 

[Taunton]

The problem here is this could result in a requirement for first train to pass through under caution and probably without passengers if we aren't careful as the trust in people to deliver what is required of them is being lost.

I know this starts to sound unreasonable, but possibly so does the first train through after weekend track works tanking through at 90mph in the dark. We can all count up "first train Monday morning" (or at least first after overnight works) incidents, a number mentioned above, even the Clapham accident was the first Monday morning trains running at the shortest headways. Terror of being hit by delay accountants for any time loss passing through at reduced speed seems to exercise minds excessively.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I know this starts to sound unreasonable, but possibly so does the first train through after weekend track works tanking through at 90mph in the dark. We can all count up "first train Monday morning" (or at least first after overnight works) incidents, a number mentioned above, even the Clapham accident was the first Monday morning trains running at the shortest headways. Terror of being hit by delay accountants for any time loss passing through at reduced speed seems to exercise minds excessively.

Its not unreasonable but rather than it being by exception it then gets planned into the timetable is what we know is likely to happen. Its fair point about running at line speed in the dark mind you although even in the light really only 20mph is likely to be the speed that would give a driver sufficient time to stop short of obstruction which give the length of some possessions these days could have quite an impact.

Dozens of trains had passed through Clapham before the accident happened and running through with a train beforehand wouldn't have revealed it.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Should there be a walk-through of the possession site or a ride through on a small truck (thinking of push-up/ push downs trucks as featured on the St Trinians Great Train Robbery!) at the completion of the works to verify that each track is clear for trains?

Fine until someone leaves the trolley itself on the track

I know this starts to sound unreasonable, but possibly so does the first train through after weekend track works tanking through at 90mph in the dark. We can all count up "first train Monday morning" (or at least first after overnight works) incidents, a number mentioned above, even the Clapham accident was the first Monday morning trains running at the shortest headways. Terror of being hit by delay accountants for any time loss passing through at reduced speed seems to exercise minds excessively.

Other examples include one on the Wuppertal Schwebebahn (suspended system) when a train derailed after hitting a clamp left on one of the rails and fell into the river below, and the maglev accident at Lathen, also in Germany in 2006, when a demonstration run was allowed to start while a maintenance vehicle was still on the track.

 

[Deepgreen]

Its not unreasonable but rather than it being by exception it then gets planned into the timetable is what we know is likely to happen. Its fair point about running at line speed in the dark mind you although even in the light really only 20mph is likely to be the speed that would give a driver sufficient time to stop short of obstruction which give the length of some possessions these days could have quite an impact.

Dozens of trains had passed through Clapham before the accident happened and running through with a train beforehand wouldn't have revealed it.

Yes, but that wasn't a track work issue (i.e. with identifiable physical obstructions), it was signalling.

Should there be a walk-through of the possession site or a ride through on a small truck (thinking of push-up/ push downs trucks as featured on the St Trinians Great Train Robbery!) at the completion of the works to verify that each track is clear for trains?

Yes, but the shocker here is that it was at the worksite access point - the most obvious and easiest place to check - rather than half a mile down the line.

 

[LambicHedgehog]

The RAIB have announced they are investigating this incident.

Derailment of a passenger train near Walton-on-Thames

Investigation into the derailment of a passenger train following a collision with redundant rail near Walton-on-Thames, Surrey, 4 March 2024.

www.gov.uk

They have also posted a larger version of the picture in that link on X (Twitter)

 

[kingqueen]

Zoomed in. OMG.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Zoomed in. OMG.

Indeed and when you look at time the train on the Up Slow that reported a large bang c30m before the Up Fast train arrived was potentially that piece of rail being knocked from the US to the UF and then back to the US where it could easily impacted the next train on the US.

Anyhow good to see RAIB doing an investigation so in due course we understand what happened and depending on recommendations NR will have to respond with what they are doing about it.

 

[Mag_seven]

The RAIB have announced they are investigating this incident.

And on that note this is where we bring the thread to a close for the time being. As soon as the RAIB have issued a report (interim or otherwise) we will look to reopen the thread.

thanks everyone