Design your own open-access operator

[BlueLeanie]

It doesn't seem to have been done yet, so I think I will operate "The Hamptons". An hourly service operating between Northampton & Southampton via Reading & Bicester Village. I'd expect the journey to take around 2h22m on 800 series stock.

This would cut 40 minutes off the quickest journey (via Coventry) or two changes off trips via London.

 

[renegademaster]

Isn't that actually the point of that business model? Offer a cheap headline price but really make money on the add ons?

Either the train company would have to pay for stuff to run admission lines or after a few weeks people will realise you can take bigger stuff and nothing will happen.

Airplanes already make you line up and check your bags so it's not an extra cost for them

 

[Bletchleyite]

Either the train company would have to pay for stuff to run admission lines or after a few weeks people will realise you can take bigger stuff and nothing will happen.

Or you go through charging for them. Or if people don't claim them, you chuck them off as abandoned.

Lumo can and do charge for/refuse large bags, and they have no boarding controls aside from a regular gateline.

 

[renegademaster]

Or you go through charging for them. Or if people don't claim them, you chuck them off as abandoned.

Lumo can and do charge for/refuse large bags, and they have no boarding controls aside from a regular gateline.

Depends if the guard has enough time for all that, otherwise its more expense of an extra staff member

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depends if the guard has enough time for all that, otherwise its more expense of an extra staff member

As noted I'd go with the steward model used by Lumo, no operational role aside from putting the ramp down so plenty of time.

 

[miklcct]

Ideally something like Lumo on the WCML, but doing the low cost airline concept properly, and wholly outside the national ticketing system (as they are in most other countries).

That means:

1. E-ticketed only (including the option just to show ID instead of a ticket)
2. Compulsory reservations, actually enforced
3. Small bag free, but more and larger bags available to purchase, cheaper at the time of booking or online
4. Chargeable seat selection including extra legroom options at a higher fee
5. "Advances" and more flexible fares with the latter also being dynamically priced as per easyJet
6. Long trains - "pile it high, sell it cheap"
7. Lumo's staffing concept - DOO with stewards
8. Ideally using a low-floor unit like a Stadler
9. Options to order food to be delivered to your seat via the website as well as a trolley service

Perhaps the Government could be sold on this being the second Liverpool instead of Avanti, or use pairs of 5 car units and split to both Liverpool and Manchester.

Would probably be abstractive to an extent but like LNR's Trent Valley operation grow the market too. Perhaps Trent Valley calls could make it less purely abstractive.

This is an airline on rails which offer little advantage over the air.

If I want to run an open access long distance service, I'll run it like a long distance metro service, i.e.
1. A service at least every hour, preferably every half an hour, from 6 to 23 every day, depending on line availability.
2. Full interavailability with National Rail tickets, plus operator-only tickets.
3. Peak and off-peak tickets, with no Advance tickets and no seat reservations (free seating for whole train). Pricing will be set to achieve full seating load in regular hours, so passengers may occasionally need to stand if there is an event en-route or in peak holiday seasons.
4. Generous luggage provision, with large empty space for luggage and bikes (which can be used as standing space as well to cater for unexpected demand). Encourage people to replace car trips by train and bike with photos of bike storage. (with at least 18 bike spaces per 12 coaches all on a first come first served basis)
5. Long trains, 12-coach all the way if possible. Keep the fare cheap and affordable walk up.
6. No extra service. No first class, no trolley, no food, with volume maximisation the sole goal to keep the walk up fare as cheap as possible.

The ads will be shown like:
"Guaranteed flexible travel between London and Glasgow for just £xx off-peak. Just turn up and go. Tickets are always available and never sell out." with a cyclist bringing a bike onto the train in the photo.

 

[A S Leib]

Sea2Sea, running (not necessarily the exact calling points):

Helensburgh Central – Glasgow Queen Street – Edinburgh – North Berwick / Dunbar

Maryport – Carlisle – Newcastle – Sunderland – Hartlepool

Heysham – Leeds – Hull – Bridlington

Holyhead – Chester – Crewe – Derby – Skegness

Aberystwyth – Birmingham New Street – Peterborough – Norwich – Great Yarmouth

Cleethorpes – Doncaster – Sheffield – Birmingham New Street – Cheltenham Spa – Weston-super-Mare

All using Class 755s, 2-4 return trips per day and an extra 1-2 per day on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays between April and September.

 

[Babybirdrobin]

how would Portion 1+2 be split across Portions 3,4,5,6?
may need alot of shunting work to acomplish

Would have a lot of shunting involved and I think it would be shunted at Carstairs so that 1 and 2 would be shunted so that a buffet got added (for the extra potion) and the coaches would be shunted into their portions so at the divides they just get taken out of the consist and have a loco attached and then at northbound, it would be once again shunted at Carstairs as it has the infrastructure

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Would have a lot of shunting involved and I think it would be shunted at Carstairs so that 1 and 2 would be shunted so that a buffet got added (for the extra potion) and the coaches would be shunted into their portions so at the divides they just get taken out of the consist and have a loco attached and then at northbound, it would be once again shunted at Carstairs as it has the infrastructure

Carstairs has the infrastructure for splitting and joining trains including loco hauled sets, it’s doesn’t have the infrastructure for totally re-arranging total set formations.

For what you are proposing with all the portions I would suggest some sort of multiple unit would be more practical.

 

[Babybirdrobin]

Carstairs has the infrastructure for splitting and joining trains including loco hauled sets, it’s doesn’t have the infrastructure for totally re-arranging total set formations.

I agree, I just feel like it couldn’t happen anyway as it’s way too hard to diagram

 

[thingie]

A new cross country sleeper that would split and divide:
Portion 1 would call at:
Aberdeen
Inverness
Aviemore
Dalwhinnie
Pitlochry
Perth
Gleneagles
Stirling
Haymarket
Edinburgh (Where the service would Reverse)
Carstairs (where it would join with portion 2)

Portion 2 would call at:
Fort William
Corrour
Crainlarch
Helensborough Upper
Patrick
Glasgow Central LL
Motherwell
Carstairs (where it would join with Portion 1)

The combined Portions 1 + 2 would then call at:
Carlisle
Preston where the train would divide into 3 portions)

Portion 3 would call at:
Blackpool North only

Portion 4 would call at:
Wigan North Western
Liverpool Lime Street

The remainder of portions 1 and 2 would then call at:
Manchester Piccadilly
Stockport
Stoke on Trent
Stafford
Wolverhampton
Birmingham New Street (Where the train would reverse)
Cheltenham Spa (where the train would split into portions 5 and 6.)

Portion 5 would call at:
Gloucester
Newport
Cardiff Central

Portion 6 would call at:
Bristol Temple Meads
Exeter St Davids
Plymouth
Penzance

This would run twice a night, once southbound and once northbound and would run Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday.
Some new infrastructure may be required which would be funded by the operator.
People could get on North of Edinburgh or Glasgow going Southbound and Bristol southwards, Birmingham, any station on the Cardiff portion, Liverpool Lime Street, Manchester or Blackpool North Northbound in sleeper cabins and at any station either direction in seated.
This would use new a new design of coach and would have two classes of travel, Seated and Sleeper, reservations would be required and that would be enforced
Criticism please

Very bold plan, but I don't like the amount of splitting / joining this service needs, considering this is a sleeper service. For a service like that it should just be a simple 1-split at most.

 

[FGWHST43009]

Here are some more I've thought of:
Fast Plymouth-Edinburgh calling at:
Exeter St David's, Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, Doncaster, York and Newcastle

Overnight version using daytime stock:
Plymouth, Newton Abbot, Exeter St David's, Taunton, Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Birmingham New Street, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Berwick-upon-Tweed

Plymouth-Liverpool via Oxford:
Newton Abbot, Exeter St David's, Taunton, Westbury, Swindon, Oxford, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Tame Bridge Parkway, Stafford, Liverpool South Parkway

 

[Masbroughlad]

Overnight services as used to operate on CrossCountry.

Glasgow down the West Coast (incl Manchester)
Edinburgh down the East Coast

Both heading to Birmingham

Then to Swansea /Penzance/ Poole maybe.

Mixture of sleepers and recliners/seats. Or maybe seating that could be used daytimes too. One way at night, back home during the day. Repeat.

Something very different. A different offer of service, catering, comfort.

 

[I'm here now]

There's no significant market for a 5+ hour journey to London.

Cornwall, Holyhead perhaps?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's no significant market for a 5+ hour journey to London.

That is untrue. Lots of people did do it when the through service existed - I did it to MKC a couple of times too. It was mostly competing with the coach market which takes 5-6 hours.

Avanti's priced reasonably enough

It's really not for the shared old banger/coach market. It costs more than the fuel driving in an average car.

and the extra seats will sell easily.

They may or may not depending how well priced they are.

 

[Steve14]

Overnight services as used to operate on CrossCountry.

Glasgow down the West Coast (incl Manchester)
Edinburgh down the East Coast

Both heading to Birmingham

Then to Swansea /Penzance/ Poole maybe.

Mixture of sleepers and recliners/seats. Or maybe seating that could be used daytimes too. One way at night, back home during the day. Repeat.

Something very different. A different offer of service, catering, comfort.

Not a bad shout, if it meant choosing a bespoke train to be created to revolutionise the sleeper services (which would reflect on the Night Riviera and Caledonian Sleeper), subsequently extending onto express passenger services, and having access to the resources and materials; a tri-loco hauled in the form of a more modern Intercity 250 with a DVT designed allow for the train to be operated from front and back and being used for power supplies. Overkill on the purpose of the train in terms of capability, but guarantees on time services in the event of running late from certain stops. Applying the same kind of set up like aeroplanes have and see live footage of the train from any angle whilst in motion at any time of the day (night vision cameras to capture intricate details of the scenery).

 

[VItraveller]

'
here is mine, though it would have to be after nationalisation, as it is incredibly abstructive but I think it would be a very useful service.

Birmingham moor Street to Brighton via Solihull Banbury, Oxford, Reading, Guildford, Gatwick, and then onto Brighton.

not only would it help to relieve some cross country overcrowding, and give another direct service from Birmingham to Oxford but it would be a fast journey from Reading to Gatwick And a direct service to Brighton.
And it would be awesome for split ticketing.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I’ve been wondering lately if a Bradford, Huddersfield, Man Vic, Warrington, Crewe, Birmingham service would have any legs. I’m sure there’s some demand for a Bradford to Birmingham service.

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

'
here is mine, though it would have to be after nationalisation, as it is incredibly abstructive but I think it would be a very useful service.

Birmingham moor Street to Brighton via Solihull Banbury, Oxford, Reading, Guildford, Gatwick, and then onto Brighton.

not only would it help to relieve some cross country overcrowding, and give another direct service from Birmingham to Oxford but it would be a fast journey from Reading to Gatwick And a direct service to Brighton.
And it would be awesome for split ticketing.

Sounds like a pathing nightmare! Plus needs a reversal at Redhill, is there capacity for this?

I’ve been wondering lately if a Bradford, Huddersfield, Man Vic, Warrington, Crewe, Birmingham service would have any legs. I’m sure there’s some demand for a Bradford to Birmingham service.

Shades of the proposed Lumo Rochdale service. Opens up some good intermediate connections - Huddersfield-Crewe/Warrington, Brum/Crewe-Man Vic, etc. Would be nice to see connections from Winsford/Hartford/Acton Bridge too but doubt that's possible due to capacity on that section. Difficulty probably lies in finding space to terminate at Birmingham! Maybe run through to Coventry, or Northampton? Though that probably comes with its own problems.

 

[A S Leib]

I don't know if there's enough capacity, but would an easier solution to Huddersfield – WCML links be to extend the existing Southport – Wigan – Stalybridge service to Huddersfield instead?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

here is mine, though it would have to be after nationalisation, as it is incredibly abstructive but I think it would be a very useful service.

I don’t follow your logic.
After nationalisation the abstraction test is going to be even more important to GBR.

 

[popeter45]

would need a link thru tokyo main station between the 2 shinkansen lines and depending on if they shut down the lines overnight but how about a high speed sleeper between Kagoshima and Sapporo/Akita
7hr between Kagoshima-Tokyo and 5hr Tokyo-Sapporo once the line extends there
so departs Kagoshima at 7pm, Osaka by Midnight, Tokyo by 2am and Sapporo by 7am

 

[MikeFromLFE]

If I might use a really thick crayon then I'll resurrect Project Rio : London, up the Midland Mainline with limited stops, across through Hope to Manchester. But - my crayons would run this as a premium service being effectively fully Business Class with meals - think original Midland Pullman.

OK there's plenty of issues with paths particularly at the London end, but with East-West rail it opens up other terminus options.

 

[jamieh27]

Cardiff Central to Leeds Calling at: Newport, Bristol Parkway, Swindon, Reading, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Wakefield Kirkgate and Leeds.

 

[The Planner]

Cardiff Central to Leeds Calling at: Newport, Bristol Parkway, Swindon, Reading, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Wakefield Kirkgate and Leeds.

Reading and reverse and then not stop at Oxford? Ok...

 

[devon_belle]

Plus needs a reversal at Redhill, is there capacity for this?

I believe not. Anyway, any extra capacity would be used up by a second Reading-Gatwick train, which is more likely in my opinion.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I believe not. Anyway, any extra capacity would be used up by a second Reading-Gatwick train, which is more likely in my opinion.

There already are 2 Reading - Gatwick trains each hour…

 

[James Kevill]

I have made up the Open Access Rail Operator called Blackpool Trains and they could take over the cancelled Grand Central to run the services between London Euston to Blackpool North.

The Blackpool Trains services will call at the stations.

London Euston - Milton Keynes Central - Nuneaton - Preston - Kirkham and Wesham - Poulton-le-Fylde - Blackpool North

Blackpool Trains would then have the new 6 electric trains in 5 carriages, and they would wear the new orange livery with red doors and a yellow driving cabs. Or the new trains would wear the promotional vinyls.

This will replace Avanti West Coast to call at the stations are Kirkham and Wesham and Poulton-le-Fylde.

 

[EnriqueEspaña]

London Marylebone - High Wycombe - Biscester North - Banbury - Leamington Spa - Warwick - Solihull - Birmingham New Street - Tamworth - Burton On Trent - Derby - Beeston - Nottingham.

I'd run it with class 68s and mk5s, maybe reformed into 7 car total rake (locomotive + 6 coaches)

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

London Marylebone - High Wycombe - Biscester North - Banbury - Leamington Spa - Warwick - Solihull - Birmingham New Street - Tamworth - Burton On Trent - Derby - Beeston - Nottingham.

I'd run it with class 68s and mk5s, maybe reformed into 7 car total rake (locomotive + 6 coaches)

Loco-hauled service requiring reversals at BNS & Derby!