Destaffing UK rail compared with International

[williamn]

I had the same observation in the US (and Canada) but it to me it seemed like they were over-staffed rather than the UK understaffed!
With public transport in the US often very underfunded, I suspect that the difficulty of reducing staff counts means that other things, such as NYC's crumbling and often dystopian subway stations go unaddressed.
Amtrak seems to need 3+ staff to manage a 4 or 5 car train (in addition to catering staff and drivers) and VIA often has one staff member per carriage. There's a balance though. On Chiltern recently someone was taken ill and with no guard it was hard to get help and communicate with the driver.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had the same observation in the US (and Canada) but it to me it seemed like they were over-staffed rather than the UK understaffed!

Amtrak is ridiculously overstaffed. It's more like air travel with someone to hold your hand pretty much every step of the way.

I don't see any point in conductors on the NY Subway. They stay in their cab so don't provide a security benefit as such, and can't see the whole long train as well as someone with a load of screens in front of them with a camera view of each coach because they can't walk out to look (they don't have a door, only a droplight). I'm surprised they haven't changed to camera based DOO.

 

[williamn]

I forgot to add Amtrak's crazy boarding processes at major stations which seem to require 3-4 staff to constantly shout at people - thats before the 4 person train crew have then boarded the entire train through one door.

 

[DMckduck]

Then the question must be asked, who would pay for the increased staffing costs; Higher fares, or more Government, ie taxpayer, subsidy? The latter of course being in direct competition with every other demand on the Government budget.

It wouldn't be such an annoyance if it didn't seem everything in this country has to be run to a profit, but that's probably a discussion for another thread. And would subsidising the rail network really fuel inflation ( not free travel of course)?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2023 ==

Amtrak is ridiculously overstaffed. It's more like air travel with someone to hold your hand pretty much every step of the way.

I don't see any point in conductors on the NY Subway. They stay in their cab so don't provide a security benefit as such, and can't see the whole long train as well as someone with a load of screens in front of them with a camera view of each coach because they can't walk out to look (they don't have a door, only a droplight). I'm surprised they haven't changed to camera based DOO.

I came to a conclusion that like traffic police who direct traffic all day, its a city that sort of exists in its own bubble, whether that's down to lack of investment or political reasons.

It did seem easier to find a member of staff/police officer for assistance or direction if you wasn't on the subway compared with the underground though

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2023 ==

I had the same observation in the US (and Canada) but it to me it seemed like they were over-staffed rather than the UK understaffed!
With public transport in the US often very underfunded, I suspect that the difficulty of reducing staff counts means that other things, such as NYC's crumbling and often dystopian subway stations go unaddressed.
Amtrak seems to need 3+ staff to manage a 4 or 5 car train (in addition to catering staff and drivers) and VIA often has one staff member per carriage. There's a balance though. On Chiltern recently someone was taken ill and with no guard it was hard to get help and communicate with the driver.

That sounds like a 4 car XC voyager at present, I'm sure there's at least 4 of them at times, although not all safety critical of course.

 

[JonasB]

In Melbourne, Australia, the driver (DOO on suburban trains since c.1990) does this.

Why can't the Swedes stipulate 'board by the front door' for wheelchair users and have 'drive' do it?"

My guess is that having the drivers handle the ramp would take too long and would lead to delays. On the line through central Stockholm there can be a commuter train every 2-3 minutes during rush hour.

 

[eldomtom2]

I suspect Japan will remain the outliers to de- staffing, as has been mentioned even the metros with platform barriers have station staff, guards and of course drivers.

Many rural lines in Japan have switched to DOO - in these cases the driver is also the one selling tickets as a bus driver would.

I had the same observation in the US (and Canada) but it to me it seemed like they were over-staffed rather than the UK understaffed!
With public transport in the US often very underfunded, I suspect that the difficulty of reducing staff counts means that other things, such as NYC's crumbling and often dystopian subway stations go unaddressed.
Amtrak seems to need 3+ staff to manage a 4 or 5 car train (in addition to catering staff and drivers) and VIA often has one staff member per carriage. There's a balance though. On Chiltern recently someone was taken ill and with no guard it was hard to get help and communicate with the driver.

I once heard a figure quoted of a conductor for every three cars for a commuter train!