DfT Considering removing first class seats on the HS2 train spec to increase capacity

[Energy]

For Liverpool I dont believe Lime St can accept anything greater than 200m although I would need to check that!

It can do an 11 coach Pendolino, though its really pushing it.

 

[Trainbike46]

Surely it would be more sensible to have 300m and 150m sets since the latter is half the capacity of the first ?

275m + 125m = 400m, so you could still pair them up for Brimingham services (or Manchester ones if it gets 400m platforms at some point over the next 40 years). going for 300 and 150 meter ones doesn't allow that, so would limit the services to 300m even at the places where the infrastructure supports 400m

 

[Halifaxlad]

If there's any money to lengthen platforms, I reckon that Crewe, Warrington BQ, Wigan NW, Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle could all have some 400m platforms without too much disruption.

Warrington BQ
Up: 253
Down: 260

Wigan WN
Up: 274
Down: 256

Preston
Up: 269
Down: 362

Lancaster
Up: 253
Down: 258

Carlisle
Up: 349
Down: 314

A quick look at those stations and you're looking at some significant lengthening works to make them 400m. 300m would be much more reasonable and without a doubt a lot less disruptive and more feasible, on the plus side Carlisle can already accommodate them! Since the infrastructure already supports 250m trains at all those stations it might make sense (if we are going to split and join services up to 400m) to run 250m and 150m sets ?

275m + 125m = 400m, so you could still pair them up for Brimingham services (or Manchester ones if it gets 400m platforms at some point over the next 40 years). going for 300 and 150 meter ones doesn't allow that, so would limit the services to 300m even at the places where the infrastructure supports 400m

The problem still remains that splitting and joining will just end up with a much more unnecessary complication rail network to operate. Personally I don't even think splitting and joining much shorter commuter services is a good idea, it only causes confusion amongst passengers what is going on.

To insist upon running 400m services between London and Birmingham (275 + 125 units) you end up with either less or marginally more capacity upon the existing network above Crewe were presumably under your suggestion these services would also have to split, which I don't believe is a good idea.

Another problem with splitting and joining 275 & 125m is that you couldn't stack two 275m units on the same platform. Now that is a benefit of having units 200m or less. Considering Euston is likely to have significantly less platforms, not being able to stack is just going to cause more problems!

Personally I wouldnt bother stacking but if you start running around 125m units its inveitable you will!

I dread to think of the people who will end up planning HS2 services!

Lets keep it simple and all HS2 trains the same length!

 

[Trainbike46]

The problem still remains that splitting and joining will just end up with a much more unnecessary complication rail network to operate. Personally I don't even think splitting and joining much shorter commuter services is a good idea, it only causes confusion amongst passengers what is going on.

HS2 was always planning to do splitting and joining in service, so presumably the HS2 trains are specced to allow that easily. It is fairly common in the Netherlands.

More to the point, the advantages of being able to form 400m trains are there without splitting/joining in service, which gives the suggested 275/125m an advantage over the 150/300m suggestion, which would entirely prevent 400m trains anywhere.

My own view is that we should stick with 200m units, and build at the very least 400m platforms at Crewe (but ideally build phase 2a and 2b completely). To get back on thread, I think there is a justification for having 1st class on HS2, and tbh I just hope we can have an election before the current government does even more damage to the country (clearly not limited to the railway).

 

[The Ham]

So of the places regularly served by Manchester – London services now, only Wilmslow would lose them; 90,000 passengers per year to / from Euston and Crewe, but 175,000 for Manchester Piccadilly and Stockport. I think the planned journey time for Manchester Airport HS2 to Euston's around an hour compared to ~2:15 from Wilmslow and 40% of households in Cheshire East have at least two cars, so that's unlikely to be a massive issue for many people even if the need to change at Crewe would be.

I wouldn't be surprised if Avanti gets more First Class passengers from Wilmslow than from Stafford or Warrington, although that's just my guess.

175,000 works out at about 50 an hour (300 days a year, 12 hours a day).

Back on the main point of the article, that's London Manchester capacity, What's stopping (given Reading Birmingham is going to be a similar journey time via OOC as via XC) XC reducing its frequency to Manchester (say 3 trains per two hours) to allow an increase in services London Manchester.