DfT Permanent Secretary to step down

[Nicholas Lewis]

Its reported in City AM that Bernadette Kelly is stepping down as permanent secretary at the DfT. Says shes retiring but its good timing given the big reset that GBR creates to get a new broom in to drive that change forward in accordance with govt policy.

https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-top-transport-civil-servant-who-oversaw-hs2-to-step-down/

Dame Bernadette Kelly, the top civil servant at the Department for Transport (DfT), is to step down after nearly eight years in the role.

A Whitehall veteran with four decades of experience, Kelly was appointed permanent secretary in April 2017 following a stint as director general of the DfT’s rail group.

She led work on a string of major projects including HS2 and the Elizabeth Line, and was awarded a Damehood in 2022 for her services to transport.

Sources with knowledge of the matter told City AM Kelly had decided to step down. According to DfT insiders, her departure is a personal decision to retire after 39 years in the civil service and is planned for June.

The rest of the article is rather condescending on HS2 as you would expect.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

DfT has a Second Permanent Secretary, Jo Shanmugalingam.
Apart from assisting the Permanent Secretary, she in the main DfT interface to the aviation and maritime sectors.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/678674c03a9388161c5d23a1/dft-org-chart.pdf

Jo Shanmugalingam

Jo Shanmugalingam became Second Permanent Secretary at the Department for Transport ( DfT ) on 30 May 2023. Jo was previously Director General for Science, Innovation and Growth at the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology ( DSIT ) from its creation in February 2023, having...

www.gov.uk

The Second Permanent Secretary General:

• works with the Permanent Secretary on all aspects of the department’s leadership
• has specific responsibility for cross-cutting issues such as decarbonisation, security and economic growth
• is responsible for the department’s work with the aviation and maritime sectors

We'll have to see whether she steps up to the top job or somebody new is appointed.
These roles are not in the public eye but are critical to how transport policy is formulated and implemented.
This week's problem, as for other departments, is how to reduce the DfT budget by 10-15% over this parliament.

 

[Class 170101]

Give her the responsibilities of the outgoing Permanent Secretary addition and don't replace the Second in Command's post

 

[Horizon22]

Give her the responsibilities of the outgoing Permanent Secretary addition and don't replace the Second in Command's post

Why?

 

[Class 170101]

Why?

Did you listen to Rachel Reeves this morning on BBC 1?

She was going on about cuts to public services and a £2bn saving on civil servants. Here is a start

 

[Horizon22]

Did you listen to Rachel Reeves this morning on BBC 1?

She was going on about cuts to public services and a £2bn saving on civil servants. Here is a start

I did not.

Oversight of the maritime and aviation sectors seems quite important though!

 

[styles]

I suspect the departmental cuts will end up involving a considerable amount of headcount reduction.

Scrapping infrastructure projects would be incredibly unpopular, and HS2 is already barebones now. The public are actually expecting more to be done in transport (e.g. fixing potholes, which may be a highways/local authority issue, but ultimately they're going to rely on central government grants if things are to improve). Trying to do less instead of more wouldn't just be roundly unpopular, but it would harm growth as well.

Either they need to bring in more revenue, or cut ongoing costs, which will largely come from staffing I would expect.

Given all that, I think it's actually not an unreasonable suggestion that the second permanent secretary is promoted and their role not back-filled. The DfT won't collapse because it doesn't have a second permanent secretary. Jo would likely be quite good at the 'top job'.

Oversight of the maritime and aviation sectors seems quite important though!

It is, but it could be rolled up into another existing role though most likely.

 

[hwl]

I suspect the departmental cuts will end up involving a considerable amount of headcount reduction.

Scrapping infrastructure projects would be incredibly unpopular, and HS2 is already barebones now. The public are actually expecting more to be done in transport (e.g. fixing potholes, which may be a highways/local authority issue, but ultimately they're going to rely on central government grants if things are to improve). Trying to do less instead of more wouldn't just be roundly unpopular, but it would harm growth as well.

Either they need to bring in more revenue, or cut ongoing costs, which will largely come from staffing I would expect.

Given all that, I think it's actually not an unreasonable suggestion that the second permanent secretary is promoted and their role not back-filled. The DfT won't collapse because it doesn't have a second permanent secretary. Jo would likely be quite good at the 'top job'.


It is, but it could be rolled up into another existing role though most likely.

They previously discovered that one person can't cover everything in DfT so they probably won't repeat that mistake.

One large area of head count reduction would be forcing though more DOO. DfT direct headcount is fairly small compared to DfT's overall spend.

 

[Class 170101]

I did not.

Oversight of the maritime and aviation sectors seems quite important though!

Yes, however @styles sums it up perfectly

I suspect the departmental cuts will end up involving a considerable amount of headcount reduction.

Scrapping infrastructure projects would be incredibly unpopular, and HS2 is already barebones now. The public are actually expecting more to be done in transport (e.g. fixing potholes, which may be a highways/local authority issue, but ultimately they're going to rely on central government grants if things are to improve). Trying to do less instead of more wouldn't just be roundly unpopular, but it would harm growth as well.

Either they need to bring in more revenue, or cut ongoing costs, which will largely come from staffing I would expect.

Given all that, I think it's actually not an unreasonable suggestion that the second permanent secretary is promoted and their role not back-filled. The DfT won't collapse because it doesn't have a second permanent secretary. Jo would likely be quite good at the 'top job'.

It is, but it could be rolled up into another existing role though most likely.

This - totally agree.

They previously discovered that one person can't cover everything in DfT so they probably won't repeat that mistake.

But you don't need two senior roles to do these jobs.

One large area of head count reduction would be forcing though more DOO. DfT direct headcount is fairly small compared to DfT's overall spend.

But this will depend on Rolling Stock type. I'm sure Class 15x units won't be cleared for DOO operation.

 

[Deepgreen]

Did you listen to Rachel Reeves this morning on BBC 1?

She was going on about cuts to public services and a £2bn saving on civil servants. Here is a start

I think it is probably rather more nuanced than simply abolishing posts when people move on - there needs to be proper assessment of roles and structure. The other option is the Trump-style farce of firing thousands of people only to have to re-hire them a few weeks later.

 

[Class 170101]

I think it is probably rather more nuanced than simply abolishing posts when people move on - there needs to be proper assessment of roles and structure.

Yes

The other option is the Trump-style farce of firing thousands of people only to have to re-hire them a few weeks later.

Frankly I hope our politicans are more professional than that, though I am not holding my breath.

 

[185]

Bernadette Kelly was appointed under Grayling, and sounded far from the neutral civil servant stance they are supposed to hold.

1. They previously discovered that one person can't cover everything in DfT so they probably won't repeat that mistake.

2. One large area of head count reduction would be forcing though more DOO.

Words of the railway management there,

Line 1 One person cannot do everything!

Line 2 Oh yes they can!

 

[styles]

They previously discovered that one person can't cover everything in DfT so they probably won't repeat that mistake.

One large area of head count reduction would be forcing though more DOO. DfT direct headcount is fairly small compared to DfT's overall spend.

Arguably though you don't need to pay said person/people £200k (which will have a true employment cost of nearer £300k).

It's only one role of course, and £300k isn't going to save the DfT from the cuts hammer, but 'every little helps', it's less contentious to not backfill than it is to make redundancies, and it (slightly) softens the blow to junior colleagues if they see the cuts are being made at all levels.

Agree that indirectly the DfT has huge savings to make, but realistically DOO is going to take years to push through. There will be a capital cost associated with guaranteeing the franchises' profits through the inevitable strike action where ticket sales will plummet. Putting aside my personal opinion on DOO, I don't think you'd end up saving any money over the next 4.5 years (which is when Reeves wants these cuts to have materialised) as it simply won't go through in time to make a significant difference by December 2029; the benefits will merely cancel out the capex of the strikes and legal action.

 

[anothertyke]

What proportion of DfT Central is rail facing? And how is that predicted to change when GBR happens? Maybe the top structure at the DfT looking forward is linked to that.

 

[Bald Rick]

Before taking this job, Dame Bernadette was the Director General for Rail, which she knows plenty about. It was good to have a ‘Rail friendly’ person in the top job. She is also a nice person.

She has just turned 61, AIUI this is a planned retirement.

 

[Magdalia]

There is a lot of mobility between departments in the senior civil service. Although Bernadette Kelly was a promotion from within the Transport department, her predecessor, Philip Rutnam, was not.

DfT has a Second Permanent Secretary, Jo Shanmugalingam.
Apart from assisting the Permanent Secretary, she in the main DfT interface to the aviation and maritime sectors.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/678674c03a9388161c5d23a1/dft-org-chart.pdf

Jo Shanmugalingam

Jo Shanmugalingam became Second Permanent Secretary at the Department for Transport ( DfT ) on 30 May 2023. Jo was previously Director General for Science, Innovation and Growth at the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology ( DSIT ) from its creation in February 2023, having...

www.gov.uk

We'll have to see whether she steps up to the top job or somebody new is appointed.

Looking at the biography there, I don't see any experience in the Treasury.

I think that a promotion from another department is more likely.

Did you listen to Rachel Reeves this morning on BBC 1?

She was going on about cuts to public services and a £2bn saving on civil servants.

When something like this needs to be done, it can help to be a "new broom".

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

DOO and railway operational costs won't figure in the DfT cost reduction plans, but it might in GBR's when it is established.
Independent of government "austerity", DfT is facing massive reorganisation and reduction in its rail brief as a result of GBR legislation (covering also ORR and associated government-run agencies).
Bernadette Kelly will have been central to the formulation of the GBR bill (under both governments) and its passage through parliament, also the HS2 project finances and railway subsidies.
How this lot is handed to a successor is extremely important to the transition to GBR.

 

[J-2739]

The other option is the Trump-style farce of firing thousands of people only to have to re-hire them a few weeks later.

I suspect our employment laws/protections are more robust than that across the pond.

 

[nwales58]

Look at the DfT's organisation chart:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/678674c03a9388161c5d23a1/dft-org-chart.pdf

and whether or not you need a Second PS appears insignificant. Savings on civil service costs means reorganisation, job titles will change, responsibilities merged, undiscovered efficiencies and synergies discovered ... we've seen it every 5 years or so for decades.

Unintended side effects, from past experience, are likely to be a few things stop happening because they are no longer top of anyone's in-tray (until the next publicly visible fiasco) and, especially, more work for consultancies as DfT loses its in-house knowledge.

 

[brad465]

Does the DfT have form for getting consultants in and outsourcing? I suspect there's plenty of savings there if they do (the Osborne austerity drive seemed to end up backfiring as work that still needed doing was outsourced, while consultants ended up costing more than whatever savings they were supposed to find).

Also, I don't know if this is a large proportion of a department's budget, but procurement of office appliances seems to be more expensive when only permitted through official channels that involve numerous tests and checks past numerous staff, compared to if someone just bought it from the supplier directly.

 

[anothertyke]

Does the DfT have form for getting consultants in and outsourcing? I suspect there's plenty of savings there if they do (the Osborne austerity drive seemed to end up backfiring as work that still needed doing was outsourced, while consultants ended up costing more than whatever savings they were supposed to find).

Also, I don't know if this is a large proportion of a department's budget, but procurement of office appliances seems to be more expensive when only permitted through official channels that involve numerous tests and checks past numerous staff, compared to if someone just bought it from the supplier directly.

Assuming GBR means the end of franchise bidding as we have known it, that on its own will have quite significant effects on the consultants in that area. More broadly, a lot will depend on what stops happening internally.

 

[nwales58]

Does the DfT have form for getting consultants in and outsourcing? I suspect there's plenty of savings there if they do (the Osborne austerity drive seemed to end up backfiring as work that still needed doing was outsourced, while consultants ended up costing more than whatever savings they were supposed to find).

Goes back to 1979 (Howe, not Osborne) at least for research, some policy work and for road projects (moved into Highways Agency mid-90s), also after TRRL was privatised (mid-90s again).

Keeping and nurturing in-house expertise on technical subjects is not something the civil service has been good at, because ministers rarely see the point, for at least 40 years. Headcount reduction has always won. It's not just transport planning and indavertent waste, look at the BRE and the consequences in the Grenfell fire.

 

[Oxfordblues]

When I worked at Railfreight Distribution HQ it was evident that quite a few people had roles that would be easily dispensed with if economies were being sought.There was at least one colleague who was on extended sick leave but whose job wasn't covered. Nobody knew exactly what he did, or in this case didn't do! To be fair, there was a lot of planning for the anticipated "massive surge" in traffic through the Channel Tunnel, but I have some sympathy with the Elon Musk approach: ask everyone to write down one thing they did at work last week.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They previously discovered that one person can't cover everything in DfT so they probably won't repeat that mistake.

No other dept has two permanent secretaries.

What we need here is a civil service organisation that enables the establishment of GBR and removes day to day control from the DfT. That needs a permanent secretary that drives through that policy. Kelly has been too meddling which Grayling probably decided that was what was required when the industry let itself down.

 

[bcarmicle]

No other dept has two permanent secretaries.

The Home Office, FCDO, and DHSC do; I suspect a few others do as well.

 

[Bald Rick]

Kelly has been too meddling

How have you reached that opinion ?

 

[IanXC]

The Home Office, FCDO, and DHSC do; I suspect a few others do as well.

Presumably the Treasury does too, given it effectively has two Secretaries of State. That the three great offices of state have 2 permanent secretaries each, plus Heath and Social Care doesn't really provide a good comparison with the (in the wider political sense) low priority Department for Transport.

 

[Bald Rick]

That the three great offices of state have 2 permanent secretaries each, plus Heath and Social Care doesn't really provide a good comparison with the (in the wider political sense) low priority Department for Transport.

The DfT has the 5th largest total budget of all departments, after Health & Social Care, Education, Defence, and Scotland; the last of which includes the Scottish elements of Health & Social Care and Education.

Within this, the DfT has the largest capital budget of any Government department; only the MoD comes close.

The DfT has responsibilities for some of the largest programmes, projects and contracts (in financial terms) of any Government department, including the largest. When the GTR contract was reprocured post COVID, that was, AIUI, the largest Government procurement of a single contract ever. (This may or may not be correct, but is plausible!)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The DfT has the 5th largest total budget of all departments, after Health & Social Care, Education, Defence, and Scotland; the last of which includes the Scottish elements of Health & Social Care and Education.

Within this, the DfT has the largest capital budget of any Government department; only the MoD comes close.

The DfT has responsibilities for some of the largest programmes, projects and contracts (in financial terms) of any Government department, including the largest. When the GTR contract was reprocured post COVID, that was, AIUI, the largest Government procurement of a single contract ever. (This may or may not be correct, but is plausible!)

It has many Arms Length Bodies to deliver those capital budgets of course which also employ vast numbers of people to implement the departments requirements. DfT need to get back to setting policy and let the ALBs deliver within whatever terms of reference they want to set. This modus operandi worked very satisfactorily in BR days in the 80's and gave the best taxpayers value for money. At least the DfT have determined that ALBs are the best route for delivery unlike DHSC route who have decided they don't want the ALB (NHS England) and run it all themselves.

 

[Bevan Price]

It has many Arms Length Bodies to deliver those capital budgets of course which also employ vast numbers of people to implement the departments requirements. DfT need to get back to setting policy and let the ALBs deliver within whatever terms of reference they want to set. This modus operandi worked very satisfactorily in BR days in the 80's and gave the best taxpayers value for money. At least the DfT have determined that ALBs are the best route for delivery unlike DHSC route who have decided they don't want the ALB (NHS England) and run it all themselves.

The Civil Service should not be allowed tp "set policy". Its task should be to advise ministers, and then to implement government policy quickly, efficiently and without delay. And the first to go should be those at the top responsible for things like late, overpriced defence contracts, failed national IT schemes for NHS, etc., etc.