fairysdad
Member
This may have been asked before, if so I apologise (a quick - note quick! - search here yielded nothing). Just a random thought that popped into my head the other day.
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Did (do) any buses use 7-segment display route numbers?
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've seen it but rare, I think some First Manchester buses had them at one point. I also saw it in Germany.
Reading Buses used them for some time in the 1990s.
www.flickr.com
First Group tended to use flip dots around the same time.
Reading-813-N813XJH-Reading-270496b
Reading Transport no 813 (N813 XJH) MAN 11.190 / Optare Vecta Service 138 Another one where I’m not sure of the location: is it Broad Street? 27th April 1996
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First Group tended to use flip dots around the same time.
Kremlin Stooge
Member
In the early de-reg days Bristol CityLine’s minibuses had them on the nearside by the doors and at the rear; I’ve a vague memory of some of the Iveco TurboDaily minis having them at the front as well. Also the early deliveries of step-entrance Dennis Darts had them side and rear.
The electro-mechanical nature of their operation didn’t always receive the maintenance necessary to keep them functioning...
TR673
Member
Nottingham City Transport's experimental 1978 Leyland Atlantean ARC 666T had a 7-segment route number from new. However it wasn't very clear so was replaced by conventional roller blind numbers a couple of years later.
Would have certainly ruled out their use in Exeter, then!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
X would be shown as H, as it looks a bit like X. Only in London does/did H appear in bus numbers (Hammersmith prefixed routes), numbers other than X (prefix or suffix) and A/B/C (only suffix) are not at all common outside London.
I'd agree you would want to avoid B (though it wouldn't really matter unless you had a 42B and a 428 with commonality of route/stop), but you could use A and C, there aren't that many routes with more than three variations.
Plenty of H routes around Liverpool in the past and in Exeter currently. Crosville used most of the alphabet for it's route prefixes.
astock5000
Member
The Shires had a batch of Dart SLF / Pointers new for Watford and Hemel Hempstead in early 1997 which had 7-segment displays on the nearside and rear but traditional blinds on the front (those were altered soon after entering service to move the number blinds to the driver's side). A batch of shorter ones new a year later had flipdot side and rear, again with blinds on the front. In both cases they tended to fall into disuse later on and I remember the 7-segment ones in particular displaying random lines.
There were no suffix letters in use for regular routes at least back then, but Watford's local services had used a W prefix and this was dropped around the time these Darts were introduced.
There were no suffix letters in use for regular routes at least back then, but Watford's local services had used a W prefix and this was dropped around the time these Darts were introduced.
I imagine there are many places with A/B/C suffixes. In fact, I think they fell out of favour in London many years ago.
There are places, well at least one, where the letter is an indication of the place(s) the different route serves. In North Wales the 5D serves Deganwy and Dwygyfylchi, the 5C is the "continuation" of the route to Caernarfon. There is no 5A or 5B.
(In this example, the buses use dot-matrix type displays, and 5D looks very like 50.)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though that's only an issue if a route 50 shares the same stops.
Almost, it's only an issue if there is no 50, and no passengers aren't aware there is no 50 and don't miss the 5D from confusion.
London was very wise to do away with electronic displays and insist on very big and clear rollers with the minimum of information on them.
I can't speak for the UK but several city operators in Australia used them in the past, and a handful of them survive in the hands of second-hand purchasers (rail-replacement fleets, as a rule). They were a bit of a brief fad for the most part - the majority of fleets went straight from roller blinds to dot-matrix boards.
commons.wikimedia.org
On the topic of displaying letters in prefixes and suffixes - remember that seven-segment displays can show lower-case letters too, so the total options are unambiguous capital letters ACEFGHJLPSU, and unambiguous lower case letters bcdhnortuy. If you're prepared to tolerate a bit of ambiguity you can also show a lower-case i (using the lower-right segment only) and a lower-case q (a 9 with the bottom segment off).
File:ACTION - BUS 138 - Wright 'Crusader' bodied Dennis Dart SLF.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
On the topic of displaying letters in prefixes and suffixes - remember that seven-segment displays can show lower-case letters too, so the total options are unambiguous capital letters ACEFGHJLPSU, and unambiguous lower case letters bcdhnortuy. If you're prepared to tolerate a bit of ambiguity you can also show a lower-case i (using the lower-right segment only) and a lower-case q (a 9 with the bottom segment off).
fairysdad
Member
All really interesting, thanks, and good to see that there have been a handful of buses that have used them. Must admit, I didn't think about the use of letters in route numbers which would cause problems, particularly with X-routes! I guess I also hadn't really think about having different display methods for destination and number which would have made things needlessly complicated, although side and rear displays could be set with only one setting.
Thanks all
Thanks all
CBlue
Member
Another fleet that springs to mind were the Alexander Ultra bodied Volvo B10L gasbus fleet at First Northampton. Like everything else on these buses, the equipment failed pretty quickly.
Merseybus Volvo Olympian/Palatine IIs 271-0308 were fitted with Brighttech 7 segment displays on the side and rear with Brighttech Dot matrix displays on the front.
Merseybus also had a batch of Scania L113CRL/Wright Ultralows which had Brighttech 7 segment numbers on the front side and rear, and a brighttech powerblind for the front destination.
Merseybus also had a batch of Scania L113CRL/Wright Ultralows which had Brighttech 7 segment numbers on the front side and rear, and a brighttech powerblind for the front destination.
The only ones I can remember from around Portsmouth are AAP 672T (a dual door Bristol VR/ECW of Southdown) which had a 'LCD' style one, similar to a calculator display, for a few years from new and N601 EBP (a Dennis Dart/UVG of Peoples Provincial) which had the 7 segment display front, side and rear.
Citistar
Member
CityLine in Bristol had a batch of Darts (L/M/N reg) and Merc 709s (L/N reg) which were all fitted with side and rear seven segment units. These were set up to display one and two digit route numbers, then limited series of three digit displays. From memory, these were 1xx, 2xx, 3xx, 5xx, xxA, xxb, xxC, Hxx (for X-prefix) and 9xx.
Interestingly, similar vehicles delivered to Badgerline in the same era had full Vultron digital route number displays front, side and rear.
Interestingly, similar vehicles delivered to Badgerline in the same era had full Vultron digital route number displays front, side and rear.
In the early 90s Hebden Bridge local numbers all started with an H. Then they changed to A to I (they're now 594-599 and 900/901).
Holmfirth local services have been prefixed with an H for as long as I can remember.
There's the H1 (Happy One) between Derby and Alfreton).
Plenty of other letters have been used.
Todmorden routes are prefixed with a T. Keighley routes with a K (years ago the M1-M6 ran in Keighley).
Routes in Wharfedale used to be prefixed with a W.
Elland local routes have used two different sets of E prefixes, currently E1-4.
Rochdale has R local routes.
Yourbus in Nottingham and Derby used to use Y prefixes, whilst the unrelated Yourbus in Birmingham used to put a Y in the middle of the route number.
Team Pennine have the D1 to Darley Dale.
Transdev Burnley use M1-4.
Leeds uses odd suffixes with D, F, G and S in use now or in the last 5 years.
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TheSel
Member
5301 - 5320 (P301-320 HEM).
A couple of shots of mine below of 5313 pre- and post- Arriva days.
Indeed, a picture of L505VHU found by a search online to contrast with L224VHU linked above. I guess the 7-segment display and roller blinds at the front was cheaper than the Vultron option.
Bristol City Line WE 1505 (L505 VHU)
Bristol City Line 1505 (L505 VHU), Dennis Dart / Plaxton Pointer, new 1994? Bristol centre 30/06/94.
www.flickr.com
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