Difficulty taking photos at Geneva station (conflicting rules)

[MK Tom]

I was politely stopped from taking photos at Geneva station yesterday by security. Fortunately I already had what I wanted, and the guards were polite and proper about it. However SBB's policy online clearly says that photos for personal use are permitted - a permit is only needed for commercial use. I found this on my phone and showed the guards and they directed me to a sign on the door (SBB branded) that said (among other things like no canvassing, demonstrations etc) that no photography was permitted at all.

I've emailed SBB pointing out this contradiction but I doubt I'll ever get a response. I just wanted to firstly highlight this for anyone else planning to visit Geneva and secondly raise it in the hope that someone can clarify the situation, speak to SBB and ultimately perhaps get it remedied.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never heard of such issues in CH (though it is worth noting your point about the security guards being very professional and highlights that a 'rent-a-thug' approach to such things is very much a UK problem).

Did you get a chance to, umm, photograph the sign?

 

[Robertj21a]

I've never had a problem photographing anywhere in Switzerland. I'd hope there's a simple misunderstanding (probably, as you suggest, the difference between casual and professional photography). SBB will probably soon respond, if not chase them up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I did wonder about the possibility of a professional type SLR camera causing confusion. However, I'm intrigued by the "no photography" signage, as I have never seen any such thing at any SBB station.

 

[MarcVD]

Border station, always more sensitive places... The no photo policy might have been requested by SNCF, not SBB.

 

[Gordon]

Very very sad reflection of today's world if that is indeed the case. Although I suppose there could have been a sensitive meeting going on at the international organisations

I have been photographing at Geneva station for nigh on 50 years...
Of course it has always been a border station but even that was never a problem in the 70 or so years since 1945

 

[MK Tom]

Here is the sign!

 

[306024]

Well that is obscurely hidden away in the middle of article 9, with as much prominence as not having your animal on a lead.

You must have been unlucky. I took a few snaps at Geneva with my phone a couple of months ago, but would never expect to be told not to in Switzerland. In fact the only time I have been told to put my camera away anywhere in Europe was at Vilnius station in Lithuania.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That translates (Google) as:

Placing posters, advertising, organizing free distributions and offering products, demonstrations, representations, collecting and signing campaigns, taking photographs or taking photographs with installations and other activities Of the increased common use without authorization.

It seems to read that basically you're not allowed to do things, particularly but not only commercial, that get in the way ("increased use of common areas" is how I think I'd translate the "relevant de l'usage commun accru" bit).

So either you've got an overzealous security guard, he thought you were getting in the way in some way (were you? I guess not but is there any way he could have interpreted the situation as such?), or he thought you were commercial due to the equipment being used (and you possibly wouldn't have seen any issues if you were just using a camera phone or something - or were you?)

That, in the way SBB tend to write stuff, doesn't read like a general prohibition.

 

[MK Tom]

It was an SBB branded sign but it clearly conflicts with their policy online. I wasn't in the way at all, nobody was around, and I did show them the online policy and explain that it was private use but they said that applied to other SBB stations but not this one due to the sign in the window and if I carried on they would have to take my details.

 

[oldman]

The German version forbids 'Foto- und Filmaufnahmen mit Installationen'. I am not sure what 'with installations' means: I take it to mean with tripods or other bulky equipment but that may be wrong.

Station rules seem to be a big political issue in Switzerland, at times involving the constitutional courts and referendums - one issue has been the ban on handing out political leaflets; another is stopping young people hanging out - the underlying issue being whether it is a public or private space.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I took "with installations" to mean "including physical parts of the station" - perhaps it does mean fixed equipment like tripods.

OP, were you using a tripod, monopod or similar?

 

[shredder1]

Never had a problem taking photographs on Geneva railway station, most of my probelms in Swizerland have stemmed from being able to afford to eat.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well that makes this photo I took in Geneva in June illegal, then.
I never thought to ask (I was using a chunky SLR).
If the prohibition is related to the border status with France, it was a day SNCF were on strike!
I also took pictures of stations from the train, or on concourses (eg at Bern).

Apart from crossing into the DDR, I can only remember one border station I was prevented from taking pictures (by police).
It was at remote Limone, on the Italian side of the French border (train from Nice to Cuneo).
This was well before Schengen. Stopping gorgonzola smuggling perhaps.

 

[MK Tom]

I wasn't using a tripod or anything, just my Nikon D3300 handheld.

Why is the French border even an issue? I walked across it two hours earlier at Moellesulaz with no checks or anything. They're both in Schengen.

Add to that that I've never had any issues photographing on SNCF stations.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Foto- und Filmaufnahmen mit Installationen

That doesn't look like Hochdeutsch so I can't say what it means, it's probably Schweizerdeutsch (i.e. Installationen is from French)

 

[Bletchleyite]

That doesn't look like Hochdeutsch so I can't say what it means, it's probably Schweizerdeutsch (i.e. Installationen is from French)

It's not Schwyzerduetsch, which isn't written like Hochdeutsch and isn't used in formal communication, but you do find that the Swiss version of Hochdeutsch does gain a bit of French vocab.

 

[Gordon]

That doesn't look like Hochdeutsch so I can't say what it means, it's probably Schweizerdeutsch (i.e. Installationen is from French)

In written form, Swiss-German speakers use standard German. Schwyzerdütsch is only used in the spoken word. In any case installationen is a perfectly acceptable technical High German word for installations.

I have asked my uncle who used to be translator but he is laid low with a cold so hasn't visited Cornavin recently.

I do know that there is a difference between personal and commercial photography rules in Switzerland, but in this case a hand held camera was being used.


.

 

[MK Tom]

Incidentally I've had a confirmation of my email from SBB but no reply as of yet.

 

[axlecounter]

Reading the german version, which is usually the one from where french and italian versions originate, it seems clear to me that all you can't do is take photos or videos with a tripod or anything similar thing used to hold the camera.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reading the german version, which is usually the one from where french and italian versions originate, it seems clear to me that all you can't do is take photos or videos with a tripod or anything similar thing used to hold the camera.

This would tally with the wording that leads onto it which suggests a ban on things where you overuse your share of the public realm (or somesuch).

 

[Mag_seven]

I was politely stopped from taking photos at Geneva station yesterday by security.

Really surprised at this - I've never had any problems whatsoever taking photos or even standing at the extreme ends of platforms in Switzerland. I hope its not a taste of things to come.

 

[MK Tom]

Well from the replies it looks like a superior grasp of French might have got me past this - fortunately I'd got all the pictures I needed for the most part which can be seen here - https://mkttransportphoto.smugmug.com/2016/December-2016/Geneva-Switzerland-10-December

It seems what I encountered was the Swiss equivalent of the classic UK overzealous security folk. It's helpful to know what to look out for in station signage etc in future.

Still no reply from SBB despite getting a confirmation of receipt several days ago.

 

[MK Tom]

Just to update, SBB have emailed saying they've sent a message to have the signs changed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds good.

 

[doa46231]

Thanks for the photos MK Tom.

They just seem to emphasise the enormous gulf between what passes for public transport in Britain and what is virtually the norm in foreign cities.

Any of our politicians who talk about Britain having 'world class' train services should look at these photos and inwardly digest what they show.

Compare Geneva's trains , trams, trolleybuses and ordinary buses with, say what runs into and outside Leeds, Liverpool, Glasgow or any other UK city central station.

The difference is embarrassing.

 

[Gordon]

Just to update, SBB have emailed saying they've sent a message to have the signs changed.

I have asked my uncle who used to be translator ...
I do know that there is a difference between personal and commercial photography rules in Switzerland.

This would tie in with my uncle's observations. He has been to the nearest CFF station to his home, along the Genève - Nyon section, and found a different wording to part of article 9, viz:

... prendre des photos ou tourner un film à vocation commercial...

He is reasonably sure that "avec installations" means making use of tripods, flash etc and that it applies to both photos and prises de vues which one supposes means movies.

He says that a club colleague at AFAC Section Geneve thinks that the idea is basically to prevent people cashing in on CFF property (including intellectual property) without permission.



.

 

[axlecounter]

On a side note, this sign seems to be in many SBB stations, if not all. They would have quite a few signs to change!