Digital Fraud Team, use of child ticket numerous times without railcard

[mo ali student]

Hi my 20-year son is a uni student, from Crewe, commuting to Wolverhampton. From September 2023, He admitted to us as his parents that he has been using child tickets (16-17 railcard) even when he was supposed to use 16-25 railcard more than estimated 15 times to get £11 discount off each ticket to get to uni as he thought it be ok, as train inspectors didn’t usually check his railcard when they scanned it in. and few rare times when they do check him Train Inspectors still let him travel and be nice to him therefore encouraging for him to do it again and again. Finally In November, he eventually got a fine from an inspector, took his id details, and my son got scared. The fine was £78.90 which he paid within 21 days; I think he tried appealing to get it cheaper we forgot what he said but he said he had financial struggles which was true but they declined so he payed the full fare. Since then he realised his mistake, so he has been travelling normally using the correct 16-25 railcard and this month, April he received 2 emails from Digital Fraud Team west midlands train (attached below). which is very concerning as theyre saying he committed fraud and have to pay £1000 fine or go 3 months jail with a criminal record.. We ignored the first letter on April 1st, which was a mistake and now the 2nd letter sounds even worse stating all the fares hes been getting discounted totalling 20 tickets worth £756.25. Any advice on what to do thanks and what shouldn’t we say, will they reply back in time Aswell? Thanks.

 

[30907]

Welcome to the forum! I am sorry your son is now in this predicament.

The good news is that he is being offered a chance to settle out of court to avoid prosecution.

Unless he can provide evidence that he paid the correct fare on the occasions they mention, I see little alternative to paying up.

He should review his own travel history, and calculate the cost of the full Anytime (not Advance) fares involved. If there is a major discrepancy, please come back for further advice.

 

[Gloster]

When the railway asks for payment if they have stopped someone who has not paid the full fare, they calculate their demand on the basis of the full Anytime Single fare for each and every journey that they believe were not properly paid for; for a return fare they wil want the single fare for both the outward and return legs of the journey. No allowance is made for any fare that was paid, nor is allowance made for any railcard that was held. They then add on their investigation fees.

They are asking for £606.25 for the fares not paid and £150 for their investigation costs. The investigation costs look like being down at the low end of the scale that they charge.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but I would think that it is probably best to pay the sum by the deadline unless he is sure that the amount requested is a wild overestimate by the railway. If he doesn’t pay, it is likely that the railway will take him to court.

As said, I am not an expert; hopefully one of them will come on soon.

 

[Brissle Girl]

On the assumption that he is in agreement with the fact that he did this, and with the number of instances quoted, then he has little option but to pay up. The alternative is prosecution, he'll almost certainly be found guilty (because he is), and will have a criminal record and an even bigger fine plus costs to pay. Moreover, if he aspires to work in a profession or industry where utmost good faith is a requirement (think financial services, law, healthcare etc), then a conviction will seriously impair his chances of entering those professions, given that the conviction will clearly not be because of an accident, but due to fraudulent intent.

 

[6Gman]

Frankly, given the numerous and premeditated offences involved he should be grateful for the settlement offer and pay it immediately.

The alternative would be a prosecution which will be more expensive and sit on his record.

 

[Krokodil]

In theory he might save a small ampunt by going to court and pleading guilty - it may be possible to argue the compensation down to the difference in fares, and courts may grant him time to pay. However once court fines and costs are taken into account the saving will be small, and of course by pleading guilty he would end up with a criminal record. On that basis he'd be better off accepting their offer to settle out of court - the only time that it's really worth the criminal record is when it's a four or five figure sum.

If he has indeed made 20 journeys on tickets discounted with a railcard he wasn't entitled to (as others have said, check his journey history with a fine tooth comb) then the figure of £606 (not sure where the 25p comes from) plus £150 costs is the figure he should expect to pay if he wishes to avoid a criminal record. I'd advise him to do so promptly, raising the funds by any legal means necessary.

 

[mo ali student]

Thanks I appreciator all your replies. He has sent an agreement email to let the team know that he is happy to pay the out of court settlement as he knew he was in the wrong he was being stupid. He sent this email before the deadline which was on the 15th and but has received anything yet its now the 16th. he sent a follow up email asking if they received the email and that hes ready to pay up. I know the team is busy but Is this normal for the team to reply late, they dont have a phone number So i guess its just a waiting game ?

Thanks I appreciator all your replies. He has sent an agreement email to let the team know that he is happy to pay the out of court settlement as he knew he was in the wrong he was being stupid. He sent this email before the deadline which was on the 15th and but has received anything yet its now the 16th. he sent a follow up email asking if they received the email and that hes ready to pay up. I know the team is busy but Is this normal for the team to reply late, they dont have a phone number So i guess its just a waiting game ?

*hasnt received

 

[Baker924]

Thanks I appreciator all your replies. He has sent an agreement email to let the team know that he is happy to pay the out of court settlement as he knew he was in the wrong he was being stupid. He sent this email before the deadline which was on the 15th and but has received anything yet its now the 16th. he sent a follow up email asking if they received the email and that hes ready to pay up. I know the team is busy but Is this normal for the team to reply late, they dont have a phone number So i guess its just a waiting game ?


*hasnt received

Hi,

By any chance do you know how they got your sons email address, was it via the email he gave when he was caught? The same thing has happened to me, and I have done it multiple times like him.

However, I accidentally put a typo in the email address. Now I'm worried they will send the chance to settle outside of court to this email address and I won't receive it.

 

[Gloster]

Hi,

By any chance do you know how they got your sons email address, was it via the email he gave when he was caught? The same thing has happened to me, and I have done it multiple times like him.

However, I accidentally put a typo in the email address. Now I'm worried they will send the chance to settle outside of court to this email address and I won't receive it.

If you have a problem, even one as specific as this, please start your own thread. It can cause confusion having two problems on one thread and no two problems are exactly the same.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks I appreciator all your replies. He has sent an agreement email to let the team know that he is happy to pay the out of court settlement as he knew he was in the wrong he was being stupid. He sent this email before the deadline which was on the 15th and but has received anything yet its now the 16th. he sent a follow up email asking if they received the email and that hes ready to pay up. I know the team is busy but Is this normal for the team to reply late, they dont have a phone number So i guess its just a waiting game ?


*hasnt received

Whilst it is good that your son responded before the deadline of 15th April (presumably April), that will then mean there is some time before they consider your son's response and reply with whatever course of action they then decide to take - which will hopefully be an offer of a settlement. This is not going to happen in a day I would think. You probably need to wait at least a couple of weeks to hear from them, possibly a bit longer than that even. It's not a deadline by which the matter will be resolved / concluded, I believe it would be a deadline by which your son needed to reply to them, which he met.

If this has been done by e-mail be sure to also check spam folder for any message that may have gone there.

I think you need to wait a bit longer before you get concerned about it. But head back here for further advice if you have other thoughts or questions.

EDIT - sorry - just noted that it was a deadline for your son to make a payment. I take it from the original offer there was no details on how to submit the payment (this seems strange given they were essentially saying you must pay by this date)? If not I assume you just have to wait a bit longer but hopefully not much longer.

Also if there was no payment method included then before paying I would advise you also make suitable checks when you get payment method details to be sure there are no scam risks associated with this e-mail request for money.

Hi,

By any chance do you know how they got your sons email address, was it via the email he gave when he was caught? The same thing has happened to me, and I have done it multiple times like him.

However, I accidentally put a typo in the email address. Now I'm worried they will send the chance to settle outside of court to this email address and I won't receive it.

If you start a new thread for your own case people can advise what best to do, including how to get in touch with the train company so they have your correct contact details.

 

[mo ali student]

Whilst it is good that your son responded before the deadline of 15th April (presumably April), that will then mean there is some time before they consider your son's response and reply with whatever course of action they then decide to take - which will hopefully be an offer of a settlement. This is not going to happen in a day I would think. You probably need to wait at least a couple of weeks to hear from them, possibly a bit longer than that even. It's not a deadline by which the matter will be resolved / concluded, I believe it would be a deadline by which your son needed to reply to them, which he met.

If this has been done by e-mail be sure to also check spam folder for any message that may have gone there.

I think you need to wait a bit longer before you get concerned about it. But head back here for further advice if you have other thoughts or questions.

EDIT - sorry - just noted that it was a deadline for your son to make a payment. I take it from the original offer there was no details on how to submit the payment (this seems strange given they were essentially saying you must pay by this date)? If not I assume you just have to wait a bit longer but hopefully not much longer.

Also if there was no payment method included then before paying I would advise you also make suitable checks when you get payment method details to be sure there are no scam risks associated with this e-mail request for money.



If you start a new thread for your own case people can advise what best to do, including how to get in touch with the train company so they have your correct contact details.

Thank you. Havent got anything back yet and yes there was no payment method. I’ll wait a little longer