Disagreeable laptop

[D365]

Every Windows 11 laptop ever sold. It's the OS, not the device.

It's an anti piracy feature.

The need to be online during the initial out-of-box-experience is for marketing purposes, not anti-piracy. A non-activated copy of Windows will make regular attempts to activate in the background, only starting to nag after a period of time, it's not required to be done during setup. The requirement for internet access is coupled to the "requirement" to have a Microsoft account to log in the first time.

This is the correct answer. Microsoft wants everyone to sign up for an online account, which is 100% unnecessary and just adds another level of complexity (at best).

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Performance improvements, bug fixes, functionality fixes..patches aren't all about fixing security vulnerabilities. Software improves all the time but the only way your currently supported copy of PhotoWotsit Eleventy Pro sees those improvements is by deployment of a patch or an updated version via the store or another online mechanism. Even an offline patch still needs to be downloaded.

You being 'careful with what you download' or having a disconnected PC altogether may reduce your perceived risk of virus or malware infection but it's no guarantee of anything.

Because I *really* need another addition to the already large number of fonts available in Word, or yet another template. I'm forever writing wills, resumes and such like, if only I could do it in squiglyjigglyfunfonts1001 instead of Arial or Times New Roman. Perhaps I can put a new emoji no-one can really see or understand what it's meant to mean too.

Particularly helpful when the optional but compulsory really update arrives and starts to self-install just as I need to go online to transfer money or check train times minutes before leaving the house.

 

[dosxuk]

There was once a time where the presumption was 'the license dies with the machine'. Completely ridiculous really if you had a machine go to an early grave.

This depends on the version of Windows. OEM versions of Windows are sold to be used on one machine, and the licence still dies when the machine dies, the automatic automation is normally tied to the motherboard, so getting it to activate after a change can be difficult even with contacting Microsoft. The more expensive non-OEM versions of Windows, can be transferred between machines, although trying to activate too many times on different machines over a time period will require a phone call to sort out.

Corporate / industrial licencing is another kettle of fish entirely and the rules can vary customer by customer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Things used to come on shiny discs, with holograms because they were genuine, some people had things on green read-write discs because they weren't. No need for a connection to anywhere.

The problem being that those who got them on green discs didn't care about this.

 

[Gloster]

All I ever used the laptop for is writing articles, etc. Sometimes I used to have to download a business report or similar to study at home or a technical article that I wanted to check against a dictionary, but that was about it. I also used it to watch DVDs, all commercially produced, but that function is dead, and I have got a CD player for music. All I would need it for would be writing up the few articles I still do for society journals and a few letters a year. I seriously think that I may not replace it when it goes where all good laptops go eventually and, despite my dislike of technology, I will call it a good laptop as it has done what I want without too many problems.

 

[nlogax]

Because I *really* need another addition to the already large number of fonts available in Word, or yet another template. I'm forever writing wills, resumes and such like, if only I could do it in squiglyjigglyfunfonts1001 instead of Arial or Times New Roman. Perhaps I can put a new emoji no-one can really see or understand what it's meant to mean too.

Tbf older copies of Word or Excel are probably fine being set in aspic. In Ye Olden Days I was happy running a copy of Word 2.x (aka Winword) on multiple Windows builds through the years. It just worked without complaint.

 

[GS250]

For those who just want a basic second hand laptop for internet browsing or writing up documents there's plenty around £100 being sold from resellers on ebay that also come with a 3-6 month warranty.

Loads of ex business machines on there that are well built and have a good few years of life left yet. Around a ton will get you an early generation i5, 8Gb RAM, 120GB SSD, Win10 licensed machine that will happily run Office 365 etc. Chances are it will be on its second battery by now so that should have a good hour or two of charge time left. You can usually pick up a 3rd party replacement at around £25 anyway.

 

[Bevan Price]

Because I *really* need another addition to the already large number of fonts available in Word, or yet another template. I'm forever writing wills, resumes and such like, if only I could do it in squiglyjigglyfunfonts1001 instead of Arial or Times New Roman. Perhaps I can put a new emoji no-one can really see or understand what it's meant to mean too.

Particularly helpful when the optional but compulsory really update arrives and starts to self-install just as I need to go online to transfer money or check train times minutes before leaving the house.

You can stop that behaviour, at least up to Windows 10.
Go to "Settings", select "Updates & Security", then select "Advanced Options".
You can delay updates to a date of your choice for about 4-5 weeks.

Then you can choose a time when you won't need your computer for a few hours, and manually click the "Check For Updates" option, and install the updates at a time convenient for you, not Microsoft.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

You can stop that behaviour, at least up to Windows 10.
Go to "Settings", select "Updates & Security", then select "Advanced Options".
You can delay updates to a date of your choice for about 4-5 weeks.

Then you can choose a time when you won't need your computer for a few hours, and manually click the "Check For Updates" option, and install the updates at a time convenient for you, not Microsoft.

The problem there being 'delay' and 'convenient to me'. The option to not install not being available and convenient time suggests that such a time exists! I'm one of the old fuddy duddys who turns things off when I'm not using them. I don't leave my laptop on when I leave the house, overnight or often have a 'few hours' when it is not in use.

Having attempted to install a 'required' Windows 10 Feature Update (if that's the big six monthly jobby), over several hours, using several GB of metered data and including staying up until 0200 to wait until it finished, only for it to completely fail anyway, Microsoft are not my friends anymore.

I found that setting my connection to 'metered' was most effective. But like door-to-door double glazing people they just keep coming back. They even kept trying to install Office updates when I had bought a standalone copy with no monthly updates, and then saying on screen (in word and excel) that I was using an unlicensed copy. Okay for me as a private individual, not so good if you were presenting to clients say.

 

[450.emu]

How common is Windows 11? Is it one of a number of options or is it pretty well universal? (And what, in very simple language, is OS?)

Windows 12 is on the horizon...

Windows 12 rumoured to be announced next year

The next major version of Windows is thought to be arriving in 2024, with Microsoft and others already hinting at some new features

www.techadvisor.com

 

[Gloster]

Windows 12 is on the horizon...

Windows 12 rumoured to be announced next year

The next major version of Windows is thought to be arriving in 2024, with Microsoft and others already hinting at some new features

www.techadvisor.com

But presumably it will be just as, if not more, restricted to non-Internet subscribers as 11.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Windows 12 is on the horizon...

Windows 12 rumoured to be announced next year

The next major version of Windows is thought to be arriving in 2024, with Microsoft and others already hinting at some new features

www.techadvisor.com

I forget so easily. Was it Windows 8 or Windows 10 which was going to be the last one ever?

 

[Darandio]

I forget so easily. Was it Windows 8 or Windows 10 which was going to be the last one ever?

Windows 10. But they never said that in any official capacity, it was one of their employees.

 

[Bevan Price]

But presumably it will be just as, if not more, restricted to non-Internet subscribers as 11.

Perhaps fortunately, messages from Microsoft tell me this computer does not have the resources to run Windows 11.

 

[GS250]

Perhaps fortunately, messages from Microsoft tell me this computer does not have the resources to run Windows 11.

We've managed to get Windows 11 onto a HP Elite 8000. 2010 vintage PC. Core2 Duo CPU, 8gb Ram. There's a hack to get past the requirements check but Windows finds all the drivers bar an outdated TPM. Think theres a USB header inside with a newer TPM module. This PC isn't officially supported by W10 either!

 

[david1212]

.... it stated that I need my router password thingy which I couldn't locate ....

To get around this simply connect with a RJ45 patch cable. Most routers do or at least did come with one.

The need to be online during the initial out-of-box-experience is for marketing purposes, not anti-piracy. A non-activated copy of Windows will make regular attempts to activate in the background, only starting to nag after a period of time, it's not required to be done during setup. The requirement for internet access is coupled to the "requirement" to have a Microsoft account to log in the first time.

This is the correct answer. Microsoft wants everyone to sign up for an online account, which is 100% unnecessary and just adds another level of complexity (at best).

So far I have only had my hands on one out-of-the-box Windows 11 computer. This was a Dell with Professional 22H2. I found how to bypass the Microsoft Account requirement.

You can stop that behaviour, at least up to Windows 10.
Go to "Settings", select "Updates & Security", then select "Advanced Options".
You can delay updates to a date of your choice for about 4-5 weeks.

Then you can choose a time when you won't need your computer for a few hours, and manually click the "Check For Updates" option, and install the updates at a time convenient for you, not Microsoft.

The settings are still there in group policies with a few changes. I can only presume they work.
One reason to wait 30+ days is to allow Sillysoft to either correct any errors or at least withdraw the component. For Win10 twice either late last year or this year shared printing was messed up.


Work have yet to build a system incorporating a Windows 11 PC. Once activated and perhaps updated the systems are then off-line for ever. The complete system has to be validated and subsequently if changes revalidated. This is avoided as far as possible for both downtime and cost reasons.

 

[Ediswan]

I forget so easily. Was it Windows 8 or Windows 10 which was going to be the last one ever?

Please don't mention the version which preceeded Windows 10.

Microsoft made a wise choice with Windows NT by copying much of DEC/Digital VMS. They just can't help fiddling with their GUI.

To quote a developer we asked to port some low level VMS code to NT, "It's not just simillar, it's exactly the b****y same". Nearly 30 years later, 'Performance Monitor' still looks and behaves like the original DECwindows version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

 

[D365]

So far I have only had my hands on one out-of-the-box Windows 11 computer. This was a Dell with Professional 22H2. I found how to bypass the Microsoft Account requirement.

Work have yet to build a system incorporating a Windows 11 PC. Once activated and perhaps updated the systems are then off-line for ever. The complete system has to be validated and subsequently if changes revalidated. This is avoided as far as possible for both downtime and cost reasons.

It's just a nuisance that it has to be bypassed in the first place.

I haven't seen any machines at my work (or at any of my clients) updated to Windows 11. Although admittedly, it took us long enough to move onto Windows 10.

 

[GS250]

Please don't mention the version which preceeded Windows 10.

Microsoft made a wise choice with Windows NT by copying much of DEC/Digital VMS. They just can't help fiddling with their GUI.

To quote a developer we asked to port some low level VMS code to NT, "It's not just simillar, it's exactly the b****y same". Nearly 30 years later, 'Performance Monitor' still looks and behaves like the original DECwindows version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

Windows Millennium, Vista and 8 were the especially bad ones. 8.1 just about passable but we never deployed it.

Windows 95 version C (IE4 and proper USB support) was the one that rarely got a mention.

 

[450.emu]

Perhaps fortunately, messages from Microsoft tell me this computer does not have the resources to run Windows 11.

The next time you try to install, say no to Windows updates as a workaround. It's a cheeky way for them to force us to buy newer kit. I have 11 running quite happily on an old HP ProOne G2 Touch officially it can't run the software

Windows Millennium, Vista and 8 were the especially bad ones. 8.1 just about passable but we never deployed it.

Windows 95 version C (IE4 and proper USB support) was the one that rarely got a mention.

Good old 95 with Plug and Pray I used to have a nightmare with high end graphics cards back in the day, more drivers than Stagecoach, but still in 16 colours...
Windows2000 was a tarted up NT version which didn't quite fit in, like the brand new OHLE put in at White Hart Lane Station at the request of TfL and Spurs

 

[gmaguire]

Windows 12 is on the horizon...

Windows 12 rumoured to be announced next year

The next major version of Windows is thought to be arriving in 2024, with Microsoft and others already hinting at some new features

www.techadvisor.com

God, not again. I switched to Mac ages ago and it was the best thing I ever did.

 

[dosxuk]

Work have yet to build a system incorporating a Windows 11 PC. Once activated and perhaps updated the systems are then off-line for ever. The complete system has to be validated and subsequently if changes revalidated. This is avoided as far as possible for both downtime and cost reasons.

If they're trying to do this with the consumer versions of Windows then they're doing it wrong. That type of work is what the Long Term Servicing versions of Windows are designed for - they only get security updates and no feature updates. Latest version is still based on Windows 10, and even that is several feature updates behind the consumer versions.

 

[gmaguire]

If they're trying to do this with the consumer versions of Windows then they're doing it wrong. That type of work is what the Long Term Servicing versions of Windows are designed for - they only get security updates and no feature updates. Latest version is still based on Windows 10, and even that is several feature updates behind the consumer versions.

That’s what I’ve deployed where I work. Runs much better on our older computers. You need an Enterprise licence for that version though.

 

[GS250]

The next time you try to install, say no to Windows updates as a workaround. It's a cheeky way for them to force us to buy newer kit. I have 11 running quite happily on an old HP ProOne G2 Touch officially it can't run the software


Good old 95 with Plug and Pray I used to have a nightmare with high end graphics cards back in the day, more drivers than Stagecoach, but still in 16 colours...
Windows2000 was a tarted up NT version which didn't quite fit in, like the brand new OHLE put in at White Hart Lane Station at the request of TfL and Spurs

I found 2000 a step in the right direction. Whilst primarily a business oriented o/s once they released directx for it loads of gamers started to install it at home. Not only did it allow for far better RAM utilisation but like NT4 supported more than one cpu.

I think the real leap with 2000 was the server version with AD etc..

 

[nlogax]

I found 2000 a step in the right direction. Whilst primarily a business oriented o/s once they released directx for it loads of gamers started to install it at home. Not only did it allow for far better RAM utilisation but like NT4 supported more than one cpu.

Windows 2000 was a gem. Rock solid and performant as anything on my work Thinkpad at the time. Only wish I hadn't been bought in by the similar look and feel Windows ME presented six months later, what a disaster that turned out to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Windows 2000 was a gem. Rock solid and performant as anything on my work Thinkpad at the time. Only wish I hadn't been bought in by the similar look and feel Windows ME presented six months later, what a disaster that turned out to be.

Windows always seems to alternate good-bad. 11 isn't much cop either, so I guess as 10 was good that means 12 will be good too, much as it just appears to be an attempt to clone the Mac UI (haven't we been here before?)

 

[GS250]

Windows 2000 was a gem. Rock solid and performant as anything on my work Thinkpad at the time. Only wish I hadn't been bought in by the similar look and feel Windows ME presented six months later, what a disaster that turned out to be.

Indeed. It took a good couple of years to really establish itself. I think once sp1 or 2 was released with directx included writers started to adapt or patch their software so it would run with 2k.

The least said about ME the better. It certainly wasn't W2k lite reliability wise. It actually took away some of the features that 98 had re running older software. Loads of home users initially upgraded but soon found their established programs wouldn't work without tedious patching.

 

[nlogax]

Windows always seems to alternate good-bad. 11 isn't much cop either, so I guess as 10 was good that means 12 will be good too, much as it just appears to be an attempt to clone the Mac UI (haven't we been here before?)

11 seems ok, I like it for simming and VR purposes. It's quickly becoming quite a different beast to 10 though. I'm seem to recall from Windows 10 onwards MS were trying to bin major versions in favour of continual product evolution? Maybe their marketing folks had other ideas

 

[gmaguire]

Windows XP will always be my favourite. I used it until late 2018. I also used Windows 2000 a fair bit, with the extended kernel to run some XP-only software.

Microsoft went in a different direction with Vista. The ReactOS project is attempting to recreate the NT5 magic but progress is very slow. I’d like to learn C++ so I can contribute (and get a much better job!).

 

[py_megapixel]

Its because pretty much everyone does want to use it for online use. Same as with smartphones, the number of people who don't is too small for these companies to care about/cater for.

No it's not. It's because Microsoft have, to all intents and purposes, a monopoly in the PC operating system space, so they do what they like and the user just has to put up with it.

Make no mistake, the mandatory internet connection is there for Microsoft's benefit to a much greater extent than the user's. I object to this for the simple reason that the computer belongs to me, not Microsoft.

I would agree it's best to set a day, or a few evenings, aside to set up a new PC to your tastes and install your preferred software. It has forever been thus, even before the Internet was even a mainstream thing.

And to uninstall whatever pointless bloat Microsoft/the OEM/the retailer decides to preload!