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District and Circle Lines to Close at 10pm this Weekend

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DynamicSpirit

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TfL have sent out an email announcing that the District and Circle lines will close at 10pm this weekend (Sat 31 Aug-Sun 1 Sept):

TfL said:
Due to a shortage of control room staff, services on these lines will close early on the evenings of Saturday 31 August and Sunday 1 September.

Circle and District lines
  • No service from 22:00.
Hammersmith & City line
  • No service between Liverpool Street and Barking from 22:00
  • Severe delays are expected on the rest of the line until the end of the day.

Now on the upside, it's good that they are aware in advance of the issue and are warning people. But on the other side, this seems a very strange reason for not being able to run services: Lack of control staff doesn't sound like it's related to the engineering works that you'd normally expect to cause planned weekend closures. And being able to roster sufficient staff seems like a fairly basic planning thing - especially on a Saturday late evening - since that's one of the times of the week when you'd expect services to be pretty busy. Does anyone know any more details about what has caused this?
 
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Dstock7080

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Looks like no night shift District Line Controller at Hammersmith? Possibly due to late notice unavailability.

Metropolitan unaffected, H&C cut-back, so they must be in.
 

bluegoblin7

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For those with long memories, it’s essentially a repeat of the situation the Metropolitan line found itself in a few years ago.

Unfortunately I can’t comment any further given my ‘connections’ to the situation.
 

DavyCrocket

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Service status now says that Circle and Hammersmith & City lines will be closed. This is worse than was advertised
 

stadler

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I took a Westbound Circle Line from Westminster to Victoria at about 23:15 today. Also just three minutes before my train as i was coming on to the platform a Westbound District Line was departing. On the opposite Eastbound platform there was also a train departing when i arrived and then another one three minutes later when my train came. So at 23:15 there was still both Circle Line and District Line trains running every few minutes at least on the Central London section.

When i checked the departure boards online later it seemed to be very little running at 23:30 and by 23:45 there was nothing left. So it seems that both the Circle Line and District Line actually finished between 23:30 to 23:45 this evening which is much later than they advertised. This is only about 60 or 70 minutes earlier than the usual last trains. I wonder if they knew the trains would finish then but said a much ealier time just to encourage people to travel earlier and not leave it to the last minute.

They were saying online and at stations that it was due to a shortage of control room staff. But this had me wondering why they do not work out the rotas so that the controllers work until the last trains. Getting the night shift controllers to cover the last 60 or 70 minutes of trains seems a bit of a poor way to do the rotas as then you have issues like this with trains having to finish early when there are staff shortages. I am no expert on the workings of LU so maybe they have their reasons but i would think scheduling the evening shift controllers to work until the last trains have finished before the night shift takes over would be better to prevent things like this from happening.
 
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Stuff happens between last train and first train. No point having a shift that covers those 3-4hrs
 

bramling

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I took a Westbound Circle Line from Westminster to Victoria at about 23:15 today. Also just three minutes before my train as i was coming on to the platform a Westbound District Line was departing. On the opposite Eastbound platform there was also a train departing when i arrived and then another one three minutes later when my train came. So at 23:15 there was still both Circle Line and District Line trains running every few minutes at least on the Central London section.

When i checked the departure boards online later it seemed to be very little running at 23:30 and by 23:45 there was nothing left. So it seems that both the Circle Line and District Line actually finished between 23:30 to 23:45 this evening which is much later than they advertised. This is only about 60 or 70 minutes earlier than the usual last trains. I wonder if they knew the trains would finish then but said a much ealier time just to encourage people to travel earlier and not leave it to the last minute.

They were saying online and at stations that it was due to a shortage of control room staff. But this had me wondering why they do not work out the rotas so that the controllers work until the last trains. Getting the night shift controllers to cover the last 60 or 70 minutes of trains seems a bit of a poor way to do the rotas as then you have issues like this with trains having to finish early when there are staff shortages. I am no expert on the workings of LU so maybe they have their reasons but i would think scheduling the evening shift controllers to work until the last trains have finished before the night shift takes over would be better to prevent things like this from happening.

It wouldn’t really work, as the controller has many responsibilities through the night. In particular, switch off of traction current, and overseeing any engineers trains that are running, and any engineering works that require a possession. There’s also planning for the start of traffic, so for example if one depot can’t supply the right number of trains for start of traffic then the controller will plan how to bring them in from elsewhere. Same for planning how trains will be cancelled if drivers aren’t available. Night time isn’t necessarily a quiet time for controllers, in fact it can be very busy on occasions.

The real problem with LU is simply poor leadership and management. Service control recruitment is just one part of this. It’s very easy for things to be blamed on Covid and the last government (this isn’t to say there aren’t elements of truth to this), but a lot of LU’s problems are rather closer to home.

Its all rather unfortunate as over the 2010s there had been some genuine efforts to improve the reliability of LU, which were bearing fruit - all this has now gone to waste, and it’s particularly frustrating as having spent a fortune resignalling several lines, replacing old equipment on stations and renewing several train fleets, things should be much better than a generation ago, but they aren’t.
 
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DavyCrocket

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Could the manager of the controller not have taken over the work of controller not available? With the manager work being done by their manager or someone ?
 

bramling

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Could the manager of the controller not have taken over the work of controller not available? With the manager work being done by their manager or someone ?

Doubtful. LU tends to view its managers as people managers. So you could have one who has come from something like a stations background and essentially has no knowledge of service control at all. A few do have the competence but this is more by coincidence than design. That also assumes any such managers want to work a night shift themselves, which is by no means a given.

TFL seem rather more interested in soppy stuff like coming up with names for Overground lines, rather than actually focussing on such boring tasks as running trains and buses.
 

Dstock7080

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Circle, District, H&C, Metropolitan all suspended from 2200 last night to rollback the CBTC software update that caused problems at Sloane Square yesterday morning.
 

MaidaVale

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Could the manager of the controller not have taken over the work of controller not available? With the manager work being done by their manager or someone ?

Only certain Service Managers (direct manager to the Service Controllers) hold Controller licenses depending on the line. If the Service Manager was to cover the role of Controller for a shift providing they're qualified to do so, they would then need to be covered by an equally qualified Service Manager as it wouldn't be permitted to carry out both roles at the same time as they're both safety-critical.
 
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