StratfordP
Member
does anyone know which bits of the DLR they are intended to be used on initially?
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DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)
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Currently, the B23s are only planned to operate from Beckton depot, so eventually it will probably be any route apart from the Stratford to Canary Wharf/Lewisham route.
StratfordP
Member
Ah that’s interesting thanks!
I wonder if once the B23s are in service if the B07s will be taken out of service to be refurbished, it wouldn't make sense to refurbish them now since it would mean less rolling stock on the network there should be enough B23s to cover the shortfall by 2026.
MCR247
Established Member
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Given TfLs ongoing financial situation I’m not sure refurbishing the B07s will be top of their list. Perhaps a deep clean, and a repainting when it’s due anyway, but personally can’t see much more than that
I think it'll more than a deep clean and a repaint, I imagine new livery so it's consistent with the B23s and a new moquette. Not sure if they'd be able to change the seating though.
It won't be this year or next but 2026 onwards can't be ruled out.
Snow1964
Established Member
Weren't they building extra trains (funded by housing), so initially will have more trains anyway until they introduce the extra services for the proposed developments.
They have already withdrawn few units (1-2 trains) so seem to be able to manage with some never available anyway. The B23s base order quantity is replacing these so adds back 1 or 2 trains.
The B07s can also be run in twos instead of threes if you wanted to do a refurbishment programme, given there are a lot of them running around in twos at the moment on many DLR routes this wouldn't represent much if any of a reduction in service vs today especially when the B23s have landed.
The additional funding for the B23 stock is under the Housing Infrastructure Fund 2017. I have always regarded this as a substantial improper use of that fund, just scooped by TfL. Rolling stock is NOT infrastructure. There is no additional infrastructure in hand on the DLR. The government is specific in the legislation that it is for "Physical Infrastructure".
ThameslinkUser
Member
So a council would be able to build a busway and not buy any buses for it? This is semantics of the highest level. It is a levy to improve infrastructure- the Docklands Light Railway is infrastructure and in need of improvement by means of increased capacity.
Not semantics at all. Nobody said they could not buy any buses. Just not with these funds, thank you. The support for the infrastructure is to build what it says.
Governments are normally fairly tight on using provided Capital funds for operating costs. And "Repairs and Renewals" definitely is in the category of operating costs, for the periodic replacement of rolling stock.
It's not as if it's a trivial amount. The DLR seemed to have scooped abut 20% of the total national infrastructure funding provided for this year.
Given the DLUHC funds also have a specific per-project approval process I'm sure central government are quite alright with this use of money to massively enhance passenger rail capacity in the area where 14,000 more homes are being built.
Snow1964
Established Member
Seems the introduction date for the new trains has slipped (per TfL Board Programmes and Investment committee papers published today ahead of next weeks meeting.
www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk
New DLR train introduction delayed - Murky Depths
New trains for the DLR will now miss their targeted introduction date with issues encountered during testing according to TfL
www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk
Snow1964
Established Member
Previous Committee papers since last had said introduction into service March 2024
Now slipped to during Q1 2024-25 (April-June), with final train currently still on schedule for Q2 2026-27 (July-Sept 2026)
Millercool21
Member
So what exactly will the B23 be replacing?
All the B90/B92/B2K 22-99 and 01-16
Millercool21
Member
There's 94 B90/B92/B2K, but it says there's only 54 B23 stocks being built though, are DLR purchasing more trains then?
Each B23 replaces two/three other units as they are the same length (ish) as three older ones
The B90/B92/B2Ks are single-carriage 30m long vehicles
The B23 are 90m 5-carriage units, so there's more carriages than present
What a beauty, thanks for post!
Snow1964
Established Member
Seems the further delay to new trains (which TfL Board minutes few months ago said would start in April) is causing problems with existing fleet.
Some are approaching mileage limit for Overhaul, so some trains are being shortened to limit usage, as new trains introduction has been delayed few more months
Some are approaching mileage limit for Overhaul, so some trains are being shortened to limit usage, as new trains introduction has been delayed few more months
TfL running shorter DLR trains to keep the fleet running
Transport for London (TfL) is having to run shorter trains on the DLR while it waits for its new fleet of replacement trains to arrive.
www.ianvisits.co.uk
It's been like this for more than a year now. Only the Bank to Lewisham trains are now 3-car, all others being 2-car. In contrast the Beckton branch now has doubled frequency, so more cars per hour than before.Seems the further delay to new trains (which TfL Board minutes few months ago said would start in April) is causing problems with existing fleet.
Some are approaching mileage limit for Overhaul, so some trains are being shortened to limit usage, as new trains introduction has been delayed few more months
TfL running shorter DLR trains to keep the fleet running
Transport for London (TfL) is having to run shorter trains on the DLR while it waits for its new fleet of replacement trains to arrive.www.ianvisits.co.uk
The older units are indeed starting to look tired, but some of this seems superficial, like inadequate cleaning. The external door buttons were an issue for a while, and just had velcro strips put alongside so they could be covered over when defective, but this seems overcome. Noticeable how substantial external corrosion is starting under some windows - this was never an issue in their previous 30 years and points again to a drop-off in regular maintenance.
I'm sorry not to be impressed by how it is all happening. We are daily users, and although the first new train was delivered more than a year ago, the only time I have ever seen them is from a plane leaving the London City airport, when you can look down on the Beckton depot and see a couple in there. And the constant weekend closures have become annoying. The closures are described as down to training, but not apparent how staff in the previous 40 years managed to get trained without this impact on weekend services. Are the entire fleet going to be built before the first gets used in service?
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The Velcro next to the door pushbuttons was from when the Buttons were covered at each end during COVID.
The weekend closures are for testing of the B23 vehicle, not staff training.
Snow1964
Established Member
Back in October, TfL Board papers said 25 were built
I am guessing must be nearer 35 out of the 54 built now (although built doesn't mean have completed tests and ready for shipping).
From memory TfL asked for delayed shipping as the company building the sidings went bust, so didn't have enough space to receive them.