DLR to Abbey Wood?

[transportphoto]

Stumbled across this article today from MyLondon reporting that Transport for London are considering extending the Docklands Light Railway to Abbey Wood:

Transport for London has admitted that it is open to extending the Docklands Light Railway as far as Abbey Wood station in the future.

The move would represent a huge boost to local residents and provide them a direct connection to the Elizabeth line.

It would also give locals at Abbey Wood access to National Rail services to Kent.

TfL were already planning to extend the DLR from Beckton to Thamesmead, but the move has faced multiple delays due to the pandemic and a reported lack of funds.

Local councillors called on TfL to extend the DLR at a recent Regeneration, Transport and Culture scrutiny panel meeting.

TfL has told the Local Democracy Reporting Service that it was only investigating extending the DLR to Thamesmead, but would design the route so another future extension would still be possible.

(Source: https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/tfl-could-create-new-dlr-22077442, last accessed 09/11/21.)

I can’t see a discussion already open for this so thought I’d ask… What are the thoughts of the forum? Pros, cons?

TP

 

[Horizon22]

Not sure why considering Crossrail is going to start soon? What sort of journeys would benefit? Custom House will have a direct DLR change and passengers can access the DLR pretty easily from a SE / TL service at Woolwich Arsenal (and probably not too bad from future Crossrail Woolwich either).

The only benefit I can possibly see is a direct link for London City Airport but again that is still only a change at Woolwich Arsenal away which is a 6 minute train journey served by multiple tph. I think there's much much better schemes for SE London than this.

 

[londonteacher]

The route via Thamesmead from Beckton would be popular once the new Thamesmead waterfront is complete. Currently, Thamesmead has no rail service and people have to alight at either Woolwich, Abbey Wood or Belvedere and then get a bus to finish their journey.

If you are going to serve Thamesmead then you might as well connect with Abbey Wood for better links.

 

[Horizon22]

The route via Thamesmead from Beckton would be popular once the new Thamesmead waterfront is complete. Currently, Thamesmead has no rail service and people have to alight at either Woolwich, Abbey Wood or Belvedere and then get a bus to finish their journey.

If you are going to serve Thamesmead then you might as well connect with Abbey Wood for better links.

Yes if the overall aim is Thamesmead, then perfectly sensible to service Abbey Wood, but I wouldn't do so in isolation. Would that mean cutting off the Woolwich link do we think or a spur instead?

Edit: The article says "Beckton - Thamesmead" which is an expensive crossing although I see some plans already exist so maybe no need to worry about that. There is also of course the Barking Riverside extension idea too. Thamesmead is extremely poorly served by public transport so definitely agree some provision is beneficial, it just depends which.

 

[londonteacher]

The article says "Beckton - Thamesmead" but that isn't really practical.

There have been plans for an additional river crossing in this area for years. If the extension goes ahead then a train and road bridge would be great but would have to be high due to large ships travelling underneath or a tunnel. A tunnel would most likely be built.

 

[Horizon22]

There have been plans for an additional river crossing in this area for years. If the extension goes ahead then a train and road bridge would be great but would have to be high due to large ships travelling underneath or a tunnel. A tunnel would most likely be built.

Yep tunnel would naturally be likely due to the rather steep slope a bridge would need! Given TfL's funding solution I'm a bit dubious about anything happening in the medium-term.

 

[londonteacher]

Yep tunnel would naturally be likely due to the rather steep slope a bridge would need! Given TfL's funding solution I'm a bit dubious about anything happening in the medium-term.

Definitely. Probably a done by 2050/60 plan.

 

[Taunton]

The bridge east of Galleons Reach already has its approaches part-built, which have been there unused for about 20 years. There is a firm plan to fit one in, above shipping and below the aircraft approach to the City Airport. Would be difficult to change mind to a tunnel now.

The various suggestions for extending the DLR eastwards, either on the north side to Barking Riverside, or across the river here to Thamesmead, are challenging given the turn of the existing line 180 degrees into Beckton station, facing westwards. It's the busiest station of those at the east end of the line, but would be left a rather silly one station spur otherwise.

 

[pdeaves]

The various suggestions for extending the DLR eastwards, either on the north side to Barking Riverside, or across the river here to Thamesmead, are challenging given the turn of the existing line 180 degrees into Beckton station, facing westwards. It's the busiest station of those at the east end of the line, but would be left a rather silly one station spur otherwise.

Why does 180-deg to Beckton need to be challenging? A simple reversal should do (DLR trains can reverse almost 'instantaneously').

 

[telstarbox]

I'd prefer to see Thamesmead served by the Overground link from Barking to give a more strategic cross-river connection. Whether there is a business case for this is another question...

 

[higthomas]

I've thought for a while that a cable car would be ideal for this area. Compared to tunnels and bridges they are amazingly cheap, and provide excellent frequency. Barking riverside-Thamesmead-Abbey Wood would do an excellent job of improving transport links in the area.
There's even a massively under-utilised cable car a couple of miles away that could be easily cannibalised...

 

[rebmcr]

The various suggestions for extending the DLR eastwards, either on the north side to Barking Riverside, or across the river here to Thamesmead, are challenging given the turn of the existing line 180 degrees into Beckton station, facing westwards. It's the busiest station of those at the east end of the line, but would be left a rather silly one station spur otherwise.

The established plans are for Beckton to be either a spur, or severed. They're not just ideas floating around, though of course they have yet to go through any consultation.

 

[Mikey C]

The bridge east of Galleons Reach already has its approaches part-built, which have been there unused for about 20 years. There is a firm plan to fit one in, above shipping and below the aircraft approach to the City Airport. Would be difficult to change mind to a tunnel now.

The various suggestions for extending the DLR eastwards, either on the north side to Barking Riverside, or across the river here to Thamesmead, are challenging given the turn of the existing line 180 degrees into Beckton station, facing westwards. It's the busiest station of those at the east end of the line, but would be left a rather silly one station spur otherwise.

I'd love that bridge to be built, but I can't see it due the problem of where the road traffic would go south of the river. If it just dumps the A406 on local roads it would be a disaster, and the alternative of continuing on a proper dual carriageway to meet the A2 too environmentally damaging.

Thus any river crossing would be entirely for the DLR and thus a tunnel

 

[stuu]

The bridge east of Galleons Reach already has its approaches part-built, which have been there unused for about 20 years. There is a firm plan to fit one in, above shipping and below the aircraft approach to the City Airport. Would be difficult to change mind to a tunnel now.

That's pushing it a bit! There's a single bridge over the DLR, which amounts to less than 1% of the project and that's being generous

 

[fgwrich]

That's pushing it a bit! There's a single bridge over the DLR, which amounts to less than 1% of the project and that's being generous

Indeed!

London · London E6 7AB

London E6 7AB

goo.gl

 

[rebmcr]

I'd love that bridge to be built, but I can't see it due the problem of where the road traffic would go south of the river. If it just dumps the A406 on local roads it would be a disaster, and the alternative of continuing on a proper dual carriageway to meet the A2 too environmentally damaging.

Thus any river crossing would be entirely for the DLR and thus a tunnel

The safeguarded route for a bridge is extremely obvious on aerial photos. Its southern terminus is at the A2041/A2016 roundabout near Belmarsh prison. That's a large junction with three two-lane dual carriageways (D2) already built that can take onward traffic, including a route towards the South Circular A205.

 

[Mikey C]

The safeguarded route for a bridge is extremely obvious on aerial photos. Its southern terminus is at the A2041/A2016 roundabout near Belmarsh prison. That's a large junction with three two-lane dual carriageways (D2) already built that can take onward traffic, including a route towards the South Circular A205.

Neither the roads through Woolwich nor the South Circular could cope with the extra traffic of a near motorway being dumped on them. That route basically goes through Woolwich, straight between Woolwich Arsenal and Woolwich Crossrail stations!

The eastbound route towards Dartford is slightly better, but with its roundabouts still not designed for that level of through traffic.

 

[rebmcr]

Neither the roads through Woolwich nor the South Circular could cope with the extra traffic of a near motorway being dumped on them. That route basically goes through Woolwich, straight between Woolwich Arsenal and Woolwich Crossrail stations!

The eastbound route towards Dartford is slightly better, but with its roundabouts still not designed for that level of through traffic.

The traffic that would come from the North Circular A1020/A406, which already have non-grade-separated roundabouts until almost 3km north from Gallion's Reach — 'near-motorway' is stretching the definition! They even have traffic lights. Of course, upgrading the A206 (or an alternate route) wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's not insurmountable.