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Do drivers know if a VIP is on board their train?

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jopsuk

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In this case, Boris and co really think the general public are stupid.

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1198665771808935936?s=20

View attachment 70797
Well off topic, but it's been pointed out that "Nicola" and "Dominic C" have very siimilar handwriting. Anyway. Onwards.

Clearly most MPs travel without notification, at appropriate times I would not be that surprised to run into my MP on the train (I certainly ran into the previous one outside the station more than once when we were both passing through). In general it's probably just those that have a security detail that the staff will be informed about?
 
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ChiefPlanner

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Our local MP - St Albans , when it was Labour , would often stand on a 319 with his constituents.

Royals travelling on timetabled services is / was a different story , won't go into that.

However , had the pleasure of John Prescott on the DC once - enroute to Willesden Junction , so I upgraded him to the cab (having told him off for not likely to cause a late start due to chatting on the platform) - had an Inspector to hand plus self , he was delightful once we got going , and would have happily followed the diagram around. He scratched a 313 that day .
 

jon0844

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Yes. Grant Shapps, my MP, doesn't have security with him. But the PM and possibly the leader of the opposition justify having it and others would be judged on a case by case basis (for example a threat having been made to an individual or something).
 

pacenotes

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Nearly no MPs get security or PPOs.

The PM would have a full detail and so would the leader of the opposition during an election, Other times it would be one PPO.

The minister for defense
Head of the treasury
Minister for Northern Ireland
Home secretary

All get a PPO with the Minister for Northern Ireland getting a full detail. But the thing is you wouldn't know they are there. Thankfully we don't have to have the even bigger fuss they do for the American president or Russian president. Closing streets having a convoy of swat teams and ambulances or three helicopters to fly 10 minutes.

Most VIPs do not know they are making a fuss by getting a train. Its the people around them who make the fuss. The Queen didn't ask for a enterence to be built at Kings Lynn or that the train is always on the platform closest to the road. But people do make a fuss and it's always going to be that way.
 

Bald Rick

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Our local MP - St Albans , when it was Labour , would often stand on a 319 with his constituents

The current MP, of course doesn’t need to stand on the St Albans - London route. Principally because she lives on the Chiltern!

Nearly no MPs get security or PPOs.

The PM would have a full detail and so would the leader of the opposition during an election, Other times it would be one PPO.

The minister for defense
Head of the treasury
Minister for Northern Ireland
Home secretary

All get a PPO with the Minister for Northern Ireland getting a full detail. But the thing is you wouldn't know they are there.

I remember seeing the then SoS NI jumping out of the ministerial motor on Birdcage Walk in stationary traffic about 5 minutes before a particularly important parliamentary event, and decide to do it on foot. The PPOs were clearly taken by surprise, hustled out of the car sharpish with the ministerial bags, and hot footed it up toward Parliament. Looking everywhere, with one hand free at all times, doing everything by the book. But nervously!
 

AlbertBeale

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I never bumped into my MP of many years (Frank Dobson, who died the other day) on a train, but only on the bus (where he'd entertain me with risqué stories about his fellow MPs). Except when he walked down to Westminster from his Bloomsbury home (as he did when he was Health Secretary, since he thought he'd better [or had been told to] shape up a bit to set an example since he was "in charge of health").
 

ExRes

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You'd have to be extremely fit to keep up with the MP for my constituency if she changed trains as quickly and as often as she changes political parties
 

randyrippley

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.........Coming back to the OP, when I was on BR (W) back in the 70s, we were informed that a Japanese govt minister (I think it was, a Japanese very big wig in any case) was to coming to S Wales on some visit related to investment, and could we select a locomotive that was unlikely to fail for his train. It's a long time ago, but I think I chose 47507. We had it especially monitored on a very early up Swansea - PAD train to check it out. And it didn't fail on the day it was needed either. Well, truth be told, I can't actually remember, but I'm sure that if it had, I'd have got a rocket that I would have remembered.

Was that the Sony TV plant deal?
 

pompeyfan

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A red cab pass holder is required to accompany someone in an active driving cab if the visitor does not hold any sort of cab pass. Why I don’t know, but it’s the rules.
 

dk1

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A red cab pass holder is required to accompany someone in an active driving cab if the visitor does not hold any sort of cab pass. Why I don’t know, but it’s the rules.
I understand to accompany somebody in the cab but not when it's because a VIP is in the train or for example prestige runs. I get by 99.9% of the time alone in the cab.
 

pompeyfan

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I understand to accompany somebody in the cab but not when it's because a VIP is in the train or for example prestige runs. I get by 99.9% of the time alone in the cab.

Oh I see what you mean! I misread the original quote. Not a clue then
 

43066

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I understand to accompany somebody in the cab but not when it's because a VIP is in the train or for example prestige runs. I get by 99.9% of the time alone in the cab.

Oh I see what you mean! I misread the original quote. Not a clue then

Unless the driver is being assessed, I also can’t see why that would be necessary.
 

pompeyfan

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The only thing I can think of is to prevent/reduce the chance of the driver attempting a political suicide/mass homicide in a similar manner to how the first officer on a Eurowings flight brought an airbus down on the side of a mountain for personal or political gains
 

Altnabreac

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I did a first class sleeper in India once and our cabin was swept by sniffer dogs and soldiers then an armed guard was placed at each end of the carriage.

Turned out the Defence Minister was sleeping in the cabin next to me.
 

ComUtoR

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Unless the driver is being assessed, I also can’t see why that would be necessary.

Two sets of eyes are better than one...

I'd love to be cynical and say that its because 'they don't trust us' It is often an additional layer of protection. It helps reduce the chance of incidents and should something go wrong, it can be resolved quicker and with someone whos voice may carry more weight that our own.
 

F Great Eastern

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He was riding with an activist (also claiming to be a journalist or film maker?) and that was all a setup. I think JC learned a valuable lesson there, as he was caught out in a number of ways. Momentum not being as clever as they thought.

I was once down in Carmarthen to see an old friend, and got one of the non direct trains to Cardiff on the way back, changing at Swansea from a TFW service to a GWR 10 coach IEP and like any good rail user, I walked down the entire length of the platform to the front of the train in the knowledge it would be a lot quieter there.

After a little while a couple of guys come up, on the phone to someone and say that there are plenty of seats in the front coach and we have a table next to another table. About a minute later, Jeremy Corbyn comes in with another one of his handlers and takes a sit down at the table, having attended a function in Swansea. They clearly did not book in advance.

A couple of people with the trolley and checking tickets came past and just smiled at him and treated him like any other customer. But then there was a couple of announcements in relation to the train manager contact the driver and other crew type messages and a short while later, the train manager came up to speak to Jeremy and introduce herself and they talked about things.

I was only 3 rows back, quite well hidden and lets just say some of the conversation between Corbyn and his handlers/advisers was interesting to say the least to hear how the Political PR machine works and how calculated it is. I assume they felt as they were talking very quietly and I had headphones on I wasn't listening, but it just showed me that all politicians generally have many moves highly calculated, in terms of time, tone and message, with PR in mind, even if the travel itself wasn't flagged ahead.
 

Essexman

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On the subject of Harold Wilson, a few years ago I wrote this about a childhood journey to Devon -

In August 1968, as we waited on the 8.30 from Paddington, a huddle of suited men and press photographers walked down the platform. We were being joined by Prime Minister Harold Wilson en route to his son’s wedding in Dawlish. Dad took us along the platform and as we looked into his coach Mr Wilson waved to my five year old sister. Part way to Devon the train stopped. There was a problem with one of the coaches and this had to be shunted out. The Prime Minister was delayed and Dad recalls a fast run with the driver making every effort to get him to the church on time.
 

tgsh2011

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I encountered Tony Blair on a LIV-EUS just after he became Leader of the Opposition in 1994. Accompanied by Cherie and some aides his (then young) kids were running amok throughout the 1st class carriage lol.
 

mb

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Sajid David at Barnt Green the other Wednesday evening. It was good to tell him how bad LNWR/WMT have been of late. Not that he cared much, of course.
 

TUC

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Anyone tapping on my cab door would probably have received a PA from me asking them to desist. Haven't got a clue who it could be or what they wanted to do.
Without even finding out if it was a passenger needing assistance or some emergency?
 

theironroad

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Without even finding out if it was a passenger needing assistance or some emergency?

We have passcoms for emergencies, they have microphones built in so if a passenger is claiming an emergency then I can deal with it without shouting through a door and probably not being heard.

We have guards on our trains to deal with a "passenger needing assistance".

Maybe next time it happens,which to be fair is very rare, I'll stop the train in a suitable place, secure the train, tell the signaller that I need to deal with a passenger needing assistance then slowly open the door hoping I'm not about to get stabbed or someone barging into the can and then answer the passenger's questions. No delay there then......
 

MotCO

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Two sets of eyes are better than one...

I'd love to be cynical and say that its because 'they don't trust us' It is often an additional layer of protection. It helps reduce the chance of incidents and should something go wrong, it can be resolved quicker and with someone whos voice may carry more weight that our own.

And possibly to take over if the driver is taken ill so as not to delay the train?
 

MotCO

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I've been driven by a 'VIP' - Christopher Hughes, Mastermind champion and Egghead - on the Piccadilly Line. Does that count?
 

bramling

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Two sets of eyes are better than one...

I'd love to be cynical and say that its because 'they don't trust us' It is often an additional layer of protection. It helps reduce the chance of incidents and should something go wrong, it can be resolved quicker and with someone whos voice may carry more weight that our own.

That’s exactly it. Having the extra pair of hands there means that if anything does develop the driver remains unhindered and able to concentrate on their normal tasks. In a similar fashion to why cab rides will always be accompanied - even going back to BR days it was practice for cab visitors to be accompanied by a manager, or in those days a traction inspector.

Having said that, I’m sure in some quarters at least there is an element of “on high” wishing to have someone there keeping an eye on things. Especially with political figures the last thing wanted is a journey turning into a shambles as if nothing else this could create bad publicity and extra hassle — just look at the Corbyn train debacle for an example of how nothing can turn into a brown-stuff storm.

Meanwhile being honest there’s drivers I really wouldn’t want anyone influential travelling with, if for no other reason that they can be loose-tongued over the PA, to put it diplomatically.
 
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Bungle158

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Back in my day, MPs from SW constituencies regularly haunted the Pullman service coach F on the evening HS from PAD. Not a whisper of security, but l do remember Anne Widdicombe struggling in vain to close a door against a howling gale at Newton Abbot.
 
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