Do normal people use 'Open' school buses?

[markymark2000]

It's something that I have often wondered and it links in to another thread but didn't want to drift off topic there.

There are many areas where school buses are fully open to the public, Merseyside and Manchester being two such areas where all of their contracted school buses (Exceptions being where the school sorts their own buses and also Yellow School Buses) are fully open to the public. If you wanted, you could use these as part of your normal commute. How many people do so though? To be clear from the offset, I of course don't mean a normal local service route which happens to have an additional 'school days only' trip, I mean, routes ran solely for the purpose of serving the school.


I know for 99% of drivers, they disregard the 'open to the public' and run only for the school, denying any normal passengers travel (irrespective of the contract) and so that would understandably cause issues and likely reduce any potential usage but are there such occasions where the public do make use of the journeys.


So, this leads to the question, how often do the normal public use dedicated school buses?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe in some cases staff use them to go to the school, though many would not want to. That would be open use as they would not be entitled to free travel?

 

[Dai Corner]

Here in Newport, the school services are registered as public ones with the Traffic Commissioner and timetables and tracking information are published on the bus company website. Drivers will not pick up members of the public though, even heading away from the school and having dropped off most of the children.

Particularly annoying when a bus has been cancelled so the school run can be covered.

 

[M60lad]

I suppose it would depend on the School whether or not they get used as some School Services can be well known for the bad behavior of the kids on board and also I'm sure most kids seem to think that School Services are just that services just for them and not for normal passengers and wouldn't think twice of having a go at any normal passengers that would get on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Here in Newport, the school services are registered as public ones with the Traffic Commissioner and timetables and tracking information are published on the bus company website. Drivers will not pick up members of the public though, even heading away from the school and having dropped off most of the children.

It seems, from having done a bit of Googling, that school "closed" services need to be registered if the ticketing is coordinated by the bus company.

However, I hope they are not doing so to claim BSOG* if general public are regularly refused, as that would, if done knowingly, be fraud.

* Bus service operator's grant.

 

[Dai Corner]

It seems, from having done a bit of Googling, that school "closed" services need to be registered if the ticketing is coordinated by the bus company.

However, I hope they are not doing so to claim BSOG* if general public are regularly refused, as that would, if done knowingly, be fraud.

* Bus service operator's grant.

It appears that the City Council coordinate the ticketing. The application firms are on their website, not the bus company's. Though to complicate matters, the Council own the company.

 

[WM Bus]

However, I hope they are not doing so to claim BSOG* if general public are regularly refused, as that would, if done knowingly, be fraud.

Several drivers refuse normal passengers even when a service is certainly supposed to be open to general public.
Some of that might be because the drivers don't know that's the case and because they haven't been properly instructed as well?

 

[miklcct]

Several drivers refuse normal passengers even when a service is certainly supposed to be open to general public.
Some of that might be because the drivers don't know that's the case and because they haven't been properly instructed as well?

All open school buses have become closed as a result of COVID pandemic, as announced by Yellow Buses in 2020 on the routes 46, 60, 85 to 88. Furthermore, normal tickets, except for annual passes, are not valid on school services.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

We have services round here which are subsidised for school use, run on schooldays only, but are also open to the public and marketed as part of the regular route. I've used them a couple of times and haven't been the only "normal" to do so.

 

[scotrail158713]

I've used one once. Although it was only because it happened to be the best timed bus for the particular journey I was making. The limited nature of their timetables and routes does limit how useful they would be to any standard passenger. I should add that that's not an issue in my eyes though, as their primary reason for existence is serving school pupils, not other passengers.

 

[neilmc]

When I lived in Manchester I had arguments with drivers who said "This is a school bus" when I tried to use a school service from Sale to Northenden which came before the regular 41. I pointed out that all "normal" GM school services were open to the public and GMPTE said so.

 

[Fokx]

I used to use the Halton Transport 44 to Cronton College just short of a decade ago.

Along with the regular morning driver there were three passengers who would board the service in the morning regularly (primary school bound) and irregular passengers on the evening service, many of whom assumed it was the regular 14.

The evening service from Widnes to Cronton though used to have irregular drivers as the duty worked off a normal bus schedule unlike the morning turns which meant that most drivers would terminate short when the last college student left the bus and occasionally refuse ‘normal’ passengers to allow them to do so. Once I was the last passenger on the bus and the driver asked where I was getting off and just drove off-route, dropping me outside my door around half a mile away from the dedicated bus stop and headed back to the depot despite being a registered bus service that was open to the public.

Halton Transport also used to run a College 26’ in the morning which ran in one direction only and this was popular with regular passengers despite its purpose being for college students primarily

 

[Deerfold]

For a couple of years I needed to travel into town between 4 and 5pm (5 minutes on a clear run). As well as the usual 7 buses an hour there were 3 or 4 school buses open to the general public running. As all but one of them finished in town, I sometimes caught them - any schoolchildren remaining on them were usually huddled towards the back or upstairs, so sitting near the front was no different from any other bus. The one that went beyond town stopped at a more useful stop for me in town than the bus station that all the other services used.

Sometimes drivers would not stop for me or would refuse boarding so I asked the bus company to clarify which were available to the general public on their website and remind drivers - they did, until the next redesign of the website, when it again became unclear which were open, and I no longer know which are.

 

[birchesgreen]

A couple of times in the past i caught the 739 (i think) school bus service, though the bus was empty apart from the driver when i got on. The bus company (North Birmingham Busways') garage was near where i lived so i took a ride when it was returning to depot. Nice bit of thrash on an old Atlantean.

 

[L401CJF]

I used to drive the occasional "open" school bus at Stagecoach when required it a dedicated driver was off sick etc.

We were told while it is open to the public, it was advised not to pick them up as A- the route was well served by other buses, B- You don't know if you're picking up a person who has a "thing" for kids.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used to drive the occasional "open" school bus at Stagecoach when required it a dedicated driver was off sick etc.

We were told while it is open to the public, it was advised not to pick them up as A- the route was well served by other buses, B- You don't know if you're picking up a person who has a "thing" for kids.

If Stagecoach were claiming BSOG on that route, they would be doing so fraudulently. It is either open to the public or it is not.

 

[TAS]

In my experience, the answer is "if they are useful".

When I started at secondary school, the (commercial) school service was just a footnote in the timetable for the normal village to town service whose route it mostly followed and which ran every 20 (later 30) minutes. There were generally only normal passengers if the normal service was disrupted as there was no real reason for non-school pupils to need or want to travel on it.

This school service was then replaced by a (commercial) schooldays only journey on a longer and otherwise hourly interurban service, which was diverted into the village. This did have regular normal passengers in the morning from further out on the route for whom it presumably provided a better arrival time at work than the normal service 30 minutes before or after. In the afternoons, it was closer in time to a normal service, so generally didn't.

 

[LowLevel]

When I grew up West Midlands Travel buses in the 90s had "School Service - Available to the General Public" on the blinds. I have no idea where you'd have found the timetable though, or indeed summoned up the will to want to board one!

 

[pdeaves]

I had a colleague who used that sort of service once... by accident. He assumed it was his regular bus to the town centre, then got confused to find it not going anywhere near the town centre. The driver advised him here to alight to get a (different route to his normal bus) connection into town.

 

[Fokx]

We were told while it is open to the public, it was advised not to pick them up as A- the route was well served by other buses, B- You don't know if you're picking up a person who has a "thing" for kids.

Which was one of the reasons that Merseytravel never used to publish School bus services both online or at bus stops pre-2013, with many remaining hush-hush between the school and their pupils

 

[HS2isgood]

In Spain some of them are the only service small towns in regions like Galicia and Asturias have, so they must get some use. In Asturias, some towns under 100 inhabitants don't get service at all during the school holidays!

 

[londonbridge]

When I lived in Manchester I had arguments with drivers who said "This is a school bus" when I tried to use a school service from Sale to Northenden which came before the regular 41. I pointed out that all "normal" GM school services were open to the public and GMPTE said so.

On a similar note, I used to semi-regularly use one of the mobility buses that TFL used to operate, and had more than one argument with people who said I shouldn't be using it because I wasn't disabled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a similar note, I used to semi-regularly use one of the mobility buses that TFL used to operate, and had more than one argument with people who said I shouldn't be using it because I wasn't disabled.

Not all disabilities, of course, are visible. Though as we have Blue Badges to allow extra privilege to disabled people when using cars, and ENCTS passes for bus travel, I've never quite understood why people object to a more general card scheme as a number of European countries have, as it would then be a simple case of a sarcastic retort while showing the card.

 

[Flange Squeal]

One of the school routes I have driven in the past mirrored an hourly local route over its northern section, and from that mid point then broadly mirrored a different hourly local route into the main town. While it wasn't large numbers (maybe a couple a day, if any some days), it wasn't massively unusual to get a few adult passengers boarding between various points. Although it only ran in term time, and didn't share its number with either of the two routes it partially shadowed between some common points, it did fill a gap between those hourly 'normal' routes' that was seemingly a more convenient time for some passengers - more so the afternoon run which ran out of town, and on which concessionary passes were valid. The morning journey was operated commercially, but the afternoon trip received some funding from the county council.

All open school buses have become closed as a result of COVID pandemic, as announced by Yellow Buses in 2020 on the routes 46, 60, 85 to 88. Furthermore, normal tickets, except for annual passes, are not valid on school services.

That was the case when there were capacity restrictions, and may still be something Yellow Buses are doing, but in many other places across the country that ended when capacity restrictions ceased.

 

[6Gman]

I once used the Kyle of Lochalsh - Plockton - Kyle (and points beyond) service. On the first leg I was one of three passengers; the other two were military types who spent the journey discussing missiles!

On the return it was me and 60-ish youngsters from Plockton High School.

 

[73001]

Which was one of the reasons that Merseytravel never used to publish School bus services both online or at bus stops pre-2013, with many remaining hush-hush between the school and their pupils

...are you sure? I worked at Merseytravel from 1997 to 2003 and since then at a school served by a large number of Merseytravel services. This has never come up in any conversation or meeting. Our services did pick up the (very) occasional passenger (pre-covid) but they're normally put off by the driver. And the kids!

 

[Adtrainsam]

Several drivers refuse normal passengers even when a service is certainly supposed to be open to general public.
Some of that might be because the drivers don't know that's the case and because they haven't been properly instructed as well?

As a legitimate user of school buses (sixth form etc.) my regular bus driver does not like allowing the general public board, stating ‘he has the responsibility of us as school children’ and doesn’t want the risk of “potentially dangerous” members of the public - which he’d have to keep an eye out for. He even stated he’d cover the cost of the ticket for refusing the general public!

 

[mb88]

London’s 600 series school buses are available for anyone to use. I used to drive the 664 every other week as part of my rota, and less frequently the 638, when I worked at Stagecoach London’s Bromley depot. Although quite few in number, there were some regular ‘normal’ passengers who would use them, although in general people would prefer not to have to endure rowdy children on their journeys even when the school service runs in part along the same route as a normal service they would let the school service go by. Of course this could also be a case of them not knowing that it was open to the general public or that it went the same way.

 

[Simon75]

I used to drive the occasional "open" school bus at Stagecoach when required it a dedicated driver was off sick etc.

We were told while it is open to the public, it was advised not to pick them up as A- the route was well served by other buses, B- You don't know if you're picking up a person who has a "thing" for kids.

But when you have a commercial route picking up outside a school?, or kids travelling outside of school hours, which will have adults on it anyway??

 

[WM Bus]

As a legitimate user of school buses (sixth form etc.) my regular bus driver does not like allowing the general public board, stating ‘he has the responsibility of us as school children’ and doesn’t want the risk of “potentially dangerous” members of the public - which he’d have to keep an eye out for. He even stated he’d cover the cost of the ticket for refusing the general public!

The regular buses also already carry a mix of school children and general public though paticularly at school times however.

If the operator advertise the service as being publicly available, then it should be.