Do operators get penalised for missing runs?

[Teapot42]

Our local bus was cut from half-hourly to hourly last year. Today, two successive services were turned short meaning we had a three hour gap between buses.

Is the operator likely to face any real consequences for this?

The cut last year came on the back of them regularly cancelling services meaning passenger numbers dropped due to the unreliability of the service. As they managed to run the rest of the route without cuts it almost seems as if they are willing to sacrifice our part of the route and makes me wonder how long before it gets cut completely due to 'low passenger numbers'.

We all know that passengers aren't going to use a service they can't rely on, so it's so easy to cut an awkward bit of a route by stealth this way. (Or use the low numbers as a way to justify a subsidy to maintain the service...)

 

[markymark2000]

Our local bus was cut from half-hourly to hourly last year. Today, two successive services were turned short meaning we had a three hour gap between buses.

Is the operator likely to face any real consequences for this?

The cut last year came on the back of them regularly cancelling services meaning passenger numbers dropped due to the unreliability of the service. As they managed to run the rest of the route without cuts it almost seems as if they are willing to sacrifice our part of the route and makes me wonder how long before it gets cut completely due to 'low passenger numbers'.

We all know that passengers aren't going to use a service they can't rely on, so it's so easy to cut an awkward bit of a route by stealth this way. (Or use the low numbers as a way to justify a subsidy to maintain the service...)

It depends if the service is tendered or commercial. If it's tendered/supported by the council, if the bus operator is honest and/or the council is good at monitoring tracking data, the operator can have deductions made for any mileage lost and some councils also fine operators for cancellations on top of losing so much per mile. If the operator isn't honest and the council don't do any checks, no deductions will be made unless you complain to the councils public transport team and make them aware of the issue.

If the service is commercial, there isn't a lot that you can do. You can email the traffic commissioner but they don't do anything so it's a waste of time.

 

[Woolos 22]

Only if reported to the traffic commissioner. Also if a tender route is reported in to the council.

 

[Teapot42]

Only if report to the traffic commissioner. Also if a tender route report in to the council.

How would we go about doing this? It's notable that only our part of the route gets cut to ensure the rest runs as planned. We've also had cases where buses have been starting up to 5 minute early. These journeys aren't tendered, only evening and Sunday ones, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the eventual aim as they seem to be doing everything they can to ensure it isn't viable commercially.

My wife just commented that she rarely sees anyone else on the bus in the morning any more, they seem to have just given up on it and gone for more reliable alternatives. And to think, back in the early 90s we had 8 buses an hour serving this area...

 

[GusB]

If the service is commercial, there isn't a lot that you can do. You can email the traffic commissioner but they don't do anything so it's a waste of time.

In practice this may be the case, but theoretically the Traffic Commissioner can take action.

 

[markymark2000]

In practice this may be the case, but theoretically the Traffic Commissioner can take action.

Yes, granted. Can but rarely do sadly.

 

[Teapot42]

It depends if the service is tendered or commercial. If it's tendered/supported by the council, if the bus operator is honest and/or the council is good at monitoring tracking data, the operator can have deductions made for any mileage lost and some councils also fine operators for cancellations on top of losing so much per mile. If the operator isn't honest and the council don't do any checks, no deductions will be made unless you complain to the councils public transport team and make them aware of the issue.

If the service is commercial, there isn't a lot that you can do. You can email the traffic commissioner but they don't do anything so it's a waste of time.

It is commercial, but should the operator be angling to 'withdraw' it so it becomes tendered, is it worth making the council aware? I'd hope they'd be less likely to award a tender to an operator who hasn't been 'trying' to run a service. Indeed, can they actually object to the withdrawal, or is that unlikely to happen in reality?

The only part which is tendered is the evening and Sunday variant. This is pretty much useless as the route avoids anywhere you might want to go and fails to connect with any other buses. It's also the only part that I've never seen cancelled or late...

 

[M803UYA]

It is commercial, but should the operator be angling to 'withdraw' it so it becomes tendered, is it worth making the council aware? I'd hope they'd be less likely to award a tender to an operator who hasn't been 'trying' to run a service. Indeed, can they actually object to the withdrawal, or is that unlikely to happen in reality?

The only part which is tendered is the evening and Sunday variant. This is pretty much useless as the route avoids anywhere you might want to go and fails to connect with any other buses. It's also the only part that I've never seen cancelled or late...

It's a failure to operate the registered timetable - which contravenes s26 of the 1981 Public Passenger Vehicles Act. If enough reports are received, the operator would be called to pubic inquiry.

Here's how to make your report. You'll need to throw a lot of them in. But they do act on information received.

Report a lorry, bus or coach driver or company

How to report a driver or their company to the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) if you think they're breaking safety rules.

www.gov.uk

 

[Harpers Tate]

As I understand it, the Traffic Commissioner can and will act if there are frequent/recurrent instances of late- or non-running etc. They don't act on individual/rare/isolated matters. They can and do withdraw the company's licence to operate - a measure that, it might be argued, may be counter productive - but I think it's about all they have.

 

[Roger1973]

As others have said, Traffic Commissioners can take action against operators, although it seems to be unpredictable whether they will or not. Ultimately it can lead to a public inquiry and reduction or revocation of an operators' licence, but informal words, then a formal warning are usually first steps.

Have you contacted operator about this? It may not do any good, but having an e-mail trail may be worthwhile.

Even though it's a commercial service, it's probably worth contacting the passenger transport bit of your local county / unitary council or whatever - you may just get a 'commercial service, nothing to do with us' sort of answer, they may be at least willing to have a word. In the current age of enhanced partnerships and real time vehicle location info being public domain, some councils do take an overall interest in the reliability of commercial services. Although there are assorted technical reasons why sometimes a bus will run but not show up on the tracking.

And with operator, council, traffic commissioner, at the risk of stating the obvious, a complaint that says 'on 25 April the 1100 journey from A to B did not run, and the 1300 journey from B to A departed B 5 minutes early' and so on with actual dates and times is going to have more notice taken of it than 'the buses here often don't run properly' (having worked for bus operators and councils, a surprising number of people think that's enough.)

Broadly, a council has no powers to object to, or veto any registration, variation or withdrawal of a commercial service so long as the correct procedure / notice period is complied with (there are a few limited circumstances where councils can object to a new service, or new line of route, on the grounds of road safety, or if a particular road is seriously congested by having too many buses on it - but both are quite a rarity.)

There is a 4 week period ahead of the 6 week traffic commissioner registration process where operator has to send a 'proforma' variation to the council/s - and in that 4 weeks, council can discuss with the operator, and / or request patronage data, to consider any action they want to take in terms of tendering or negotiating a replacement service. (Not every council supported journey / service has to go through a formal tender - support can be on a 'de minimis' basis for relatively low value contracts, e.g. odd journeys, or where a need is met by extending journey/s on a commercial service.)

In terms of tendering a replacement service (if it comes to that, and assuming local council has both the political will and budget to consider it) it's not quite as simple as council must always award to the lowest bidder, but council needs to have a fairly good reason (and potentially one that would stand up if operator challenged the decision in court) for not awarding to the lowest bidder. I'm not sure if past performance on a commercial route would count.

 

[Starmill]

If a customer sees what they believe is a pattern it's always worth contacting the customer service of the operator to ask for an explanation. If there's no reply, or if the reply is unsatisfactory, that can then lead the customer to a contact to the Traffic Commissioner. Just because in general they are unlikely to act, that alone doesn't mean it's not worth doing. That said I'd never blame anyone for not using their precious time drafting letters explaining their reasons for believing there's a pattern. I agree with the comments that say there's no reason to contact the Traffic Commissioner if something has only occurred once.