Do passenger statistics directly affect calling patterns?

[SandsofEss]

I buy my annual season ticket with an origin point one stop further down the line than my home station (from Staplehurst rather than from Marden). I do this because it’s the same price, but means I save a few pounds if I ever travel ‘the other way’ on leisure trips.

My question is, am I potentially causing Marden station to lose out because my daily journeys don’t count towards the official passenger statistics? Are decisions about service frequencies ever made based purely on ticket data (as opposed to observations on the ground)? I presume so, but thought I’d post here in case anybody knows.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's a reasonable question. Do you have to tap in / tap out or use barriers to enter / exit at Marden? Otherwise how are useage stats determined on an annual season? 464 single journeys from point to point whether made or not?

 

[SandsofEss]

It's a reasonable question. Do you have to tap in / tap out or use barriers to enter / exit at Marden? Otherwise how are useage stats determined on an annual season? 464 single journeys from point to point whether made or not?

No. No barriers and no contactless reader, and on-platform ticket checks once every couple of years.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

And as you pointed out, your own ticket has been issued to/from Staplehurst.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

I vaguely remember there being an issue in the Brighton area a while ago, as I remember it, and I know my memory if it is very vague, a station had it's service cut and the local mp, or mps, complained that the numbers being quoted for passengers was incorrect due to many if them doing as you have done.
I am sure someone much much more knowledgeable about this will give the correct information.

 

[D6975]

We had this on a thread not long ago, about pax on the Oxted lines buying seasons from stations further out than their ‘home’ station. In the morning they would catch a down train for a couple of stops then return to London from there – the reason being to increase their chances of getting a seat

 

[Ianno87]

We had this on a thread not long ago, about pax on the Oxted lines buying seasons from stations further out than their ‘home’ station. In the morning they would catch a down train for a couple of stops then return to London from there – the reason being to increase their chances of getting a seat

Sometimes people do it because it is no extra (or very little extra) cost to go a couple of stops further. On-train counts are usually a more reliable indicator of actual train-by-train demand, and the basis for timetable planning.

 

[SandsofEss]

On-train counts are usually a more reliable indicator of actual train-by-train demand, and the basis for timetable planning.

Thank you. That's the reassurance I was hoping for. I can continue booking from Staplehurst to save a few pounds, without fearing that little old Marden will lose out as a direct result.

 

[Route115?]

Most tickets are purchased at the country end, but some travelcards are purchased from London stations so there is no way of knowing where they will be used. ORR produce annual station count data:https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/estimates-of-station-usage/.
There is also a methodolgy report: https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1917/station-usage-quality-and-methodology-report.pdf.

I used to work in the area, many, many years ago. There are various sources of data, station counts (irregular at country station), gate data (if the station has gates), the MOIRA package gives ons and offs, but is reliant on Lennon data and possibly out of date time profiles. At one stage there was a special calibrated MOIRA version for SWT which compensated for shortfalls with season ticket version. There could be glitches - passengers on the Snow Hill lines travelling north were more shown as likely to join at Snow Hill & those south at Moor St - I'm not if this is true in real life. There will always be issues with places like Maidstone / Canterbury BR (if thats what they are still called).

There are various devices on trains for recording passengers numbers. Train weighing gives net change at the station so you can't record separate out those aligting & joining but I think that some trains have beams that may give that - other members may know.

Many years ago I was told that Sandwich was a popular station for seasons to London as owing to the taper the cost was little more than stations much closer to London and tickets covered mose of the South East Division. Cannon St had very high sales as season tickets purchased by companies were purchased there.

 

[mmh]

I don't know, but when I used to regularly, at least once a month, travel to/from London I deliberately bought my ticket from Deganwy rather than Llandudno or Llandudno Junction (same price, there's a large area in North Wales which has identical fares) in the hope it might boost the stats for my local station even if I didn't use it.

 

[PHILIPE]

The TFW service between Chester and Liverpool should be hourly but since the early days of Covid has been reduced to hourly but could be re-instated in December. TFW were asked a question on Twitter this week as to if and when the hourly service would return. TFW replied that the position would be monitored so this prompted a further question "How can you monitor it if you've withdrawn it"

 

[Dr Hoo]

On-train counts are usually a more reliable indicator of actual train-by-train demand, and the basis for timetable planning.

Precisely. I know that it was back in BR's day when I was a Resources Manager and Service Group Manager but in those far often times, especially when a service/call reduction was in prospect, you had to get someone out on the trains for a day. Obviously various traffic generators like education and tourism tend to be seasonal and you have to work a year ahead to some extent.

Chatting to local staff - "Is it usually this quiet/busy" - is also necessary.

Aggregated data, such as ticketed journeys or revenue per period are only really useful as a first cut. Particularly on many Scottish routes things like rovers, BritRail and Interail gave no clue as to stations used, let alone which trains.

 

[Fidelis]

Precisely. I know that it was back in BR's day when I was a Resources Manager and Service Group Manager but in those far often times, especially when a service/call reduction was in prospect, you had to get someone out on the trains for a day. Obviously various traffic generators like education and tourism tend to be seasonal and you have to work a year ahead to some extent.

Chatting to local staff - "Is it usually this quiet/busy" - is also necessary.

Aggregated data, such as ticketed journeys or revenue per period are only really useful as a first cut. Particularly on many Scottish routes things like rovers, BritRail and Interail gave no clue as to stations used, let alone which trains.

When Railfuture West Midlands followed up complaints of overcrowding on the New Street -Worcester-Hereford services in 2017 it was informed that the Class 170s did not have on train passenger counting so passenger numbers were judged by on the platform checking by a Market Research company.
Railfuture arranged two surveys in the March and third quarter of that year with a volunteer in each carriage the results showed that the New Street 14.49, 15.49 and 16.19 departure were consistently overcrowded with shoppers avoiding the rush hour, plus students and staff from the QE Hospital. Additional carriages were added to the latter two services.
ORR statistics are a challenge as each year the figures for the two stations in Worcester are changed as the data base criteria changes. Figures for this and last year will be interesting as under Covid restrictions WMR operated to and from Shrub Hill only and now barring some early morning starts run through out the day to and from Foregate Street . Definitely a challenge for the statisticians.

 

[Llandudno]

I don't know, but when I used to regularly, at least once a month, travel to/from London I deliberately bought my ticket from Deganwy rather than Llandudno or Llandudno Junction (same price, there's a large area in North Wales which has identical fares) in the hope it might boost the stats for my local station even if I didn't use it.

The other issue surrounding Deganwy is that very few Advance tickets are available compared to Llandudno Junction, so on occasions I have walked or got a lift to the Junction to start my journey because of advanced tickets being available

There are also numerous occasions on journey planners when connections to/from the Llandudno branch don’t appear on journey planners because the ’connectional‘ time is 4 minutes, even though it is a simple cross platform connection to/from the main line, consequently people drive to the Junction instead of boarding at Deganwy (and Llandudno for that matter!)

 

[SandsofEss]

Most tickets are purchased at the country end, but some travelcards are purchased from London stations so there is no way of knowing where they will be used. ORR produce annual station count data:https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/estimates-of-station-usage/.
There is also a methodolgy report: https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1917/station-usage-quality-and-methodology-report.pdf.

I used to work in the area, many, many years ago. There are various sources of data, station counts (irregular at country station), gate data (if the station has gates), the MOIRA package gives ons and offs, but is reliant on Lennon data and possibly out of date time profiles. At one stage there was a special calibrated MOIRA version for SWT which compensated for shortfalls with season ticket version. There could be glitches - passengers on the Snow Hill lines travelling north were more shown as likely to join at Snow Hill & those south at Moor St - I'm not if this is true in real life. There will always be issues with places like Maidstone / Canterbury BR (if thats what they are still called).

There are various devices on trains for recording passengers numbers. Train weighing gives net change at the station so you can't record separate out those aligting & joining but I think that some trains have beams that may give that - other members may know.

Many years ago I was told that Sandwich was a popular station for seasons to London as owing to the taper the cost was little more than stations much closer to London and tickets covered mose of the South East Division. Cannon St had very high sales as season tickets purchased by companies were purchased there.

This is an excellent, comprehensive answer, with links to further reading too. Thank you!

Your comment about the beams has possibly answered another question lurking at the back of my mind for years (regarding the little reflective circles mounted on either side of the vestibules by the doors on Class 375s).

 

[BluePenguin]

Thank you. That's the reassurance I was hoping for. I can continue booking from Staplehurst to save a few pounds, without fearing that little old Marden will lose out as a direct result.

Very little chance of that happening, every single mainline service (usually) stops there after Ashford. Even Pluckley is stopped at most of the time