Do Split Advance Tickets Constitute a single Journey?

[Sultan]

Hi,

I was looking on Trainline last night for a single ticket from Sheffield to Worcestershire Parkway, travelling after 5pm (on 26th May). The single advance fare is about £36, changing at Derby. However, Trainline is offering 2 advance tickets, split at Derby for about £20, on the same trains. The changeover time is 9 minutes (subsequent one an hour later). Naturally, as they are advance tickets, they are only valid on the services nominated.

If the first train is delayed and the connection cannot be made, am I allowed to board the subsequent train on the 2nd leg with the original ticket? The Trainline has suggested it as a legitimate itinerary, has a popup saying that splitting the journey in this manner is permitted, but doesn't mention anything specifically if you should miss the connection (by a delayed 1st service). They do offer insurance for 90p which covers you for missed connections (up to £250) so in theory, I could buy this and utilise it if I needed to purchase an 'on the day' single from Derby to Worcestershire Parkway for the subsequent train.

But am I right in thinking that if I am delayed, I am allowed to use the 2nd advance ticket on the next available service because it is in my itinerary from the Trainline? If there is any doubt, then I would seek written permission to do so from an official at Derby before boarding.

Thanks

Edit - and yes, I did try Worcester (Any) as an alternative destination but that is over £60 to go to via Birmingham.

 

[skyhigh]

The changeover time is 9 minutes (subsequent one an hour later).

Minimum connection time at Derby is 6 mins, so no issue. It's a valid itinerary and makes no difference that they're Advance or split tickets.

 

[Sultan]

Minimum connection time at Derby is 6 mins, so no issue. It's a valid itinerary and makes no difference that they're Advance or split tickets.

Thanks - that's what I thought. Just wasn't 100% sure (reading the Prosecutions section shows how confusing all the scenarios can be to the uneducated)

 

[Hadders]

If the first train is delayed then you may take the next train, subject to any operator restrictions.

The National Rail Conditions or Travel quite clearly states that you may use two or more tickets to make a journey.

 

[Watershed]

Hi,

I was looking on Trainline last night for a single ticket from Sheffield to Worcestershire Parkway, travelling after 5pm (on 26th May). The single advance fare is about £36, changing at Derby. However, Trainline is offering 2 advance tickets, split at Derby for about £20, on the same trains. The changeover time is 9 minutes (subsequent one an hour later). Naturally, as they are advance tickets, they are only valid on the services nominated.

If the first train is delayed and the connection cannot be made, am I allowed to board the subsequent train on the 2nd leg with the original ticket? The Trainline has suggested it as a legitimate itinerary, has a popup saying that splitting the journey in this manner is permitted, but doesn't mention anything specifically if you should miss the connection (by a delayed 1st service). They do offer insurance for 90p which covers you for missed connections (up to £250) so in theory, I could buy this and utilise it if I needed to purchase an 'on the day' single from Derby to Worcestershire Parkway for the subsequent train.

But am I right in thinking that if I am delayed, I am allowed to use the 2nd advance ticket on the next available service because it is in my itinerary from the Trainline? If there is any doubt, then I would seek written permission to do so from an official at Derby before boarding.

Thanks

Edit - and yes, I did try Worcester (Any) as an alternative destination but that is over £60 to go to via Birmingham.

There is no need to buy Trainline's insurance product. Under condition 14.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) you can make one journey using multiple tickets, so the fact that you have split tickets doesn't reduce your rights in this regard. Condition 9.4 is also completely clear that taking the next service is permitted if you miss your connection due to delays:

Where you are using a Ticket valid on a specific train service or train services (such as an “advance” Ticket) and you miss a service because a previous connecting train service was delayed, you will be able to travel on the next train service provided by the Train Company with whom you were booked without penalty.

There is no requirement to have an itinerary to be able to take advantage of this right, although it can help to quickly show that you allowed enough time between trains. The minimum connection time at Derby is 6 minutes so your 9 minute change is more than enough.

There is also no requirement to get permission from station staff or anyone else before boarding a later service. Such permission would only be required if you wanted to take a following service which didn't meet the company or route restrictions specified on your Advance ticket - your Derby to Worcestershire Parkway ticket would likely be "XC only", but in this case XC are the only operator who would be relevant for this journey, so it's a moot point.

It's also worth noting that Trainline charge a booking fee, unlike almost every other retailer out there. They also charge a fee for any changes you want to make to your booking. There are alternative retailers out there, such as XC's own app/website and Railsmartr, that allow you to make the booking fee-free and to change your Advance tickets to another date or time without a fee (just the fare difference, if any). That would give you maximum flexibility in case your plans change, and as mentioned above, there is no need to buy the tickets with a single itinerary in order to have the usual rights associated with split ticketing.

 

[Sultan]

There is no need to buy Trainline's insurance product. Under condition 14.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) you can make one journey using multiple tickets, so the fact that you have split tickets doesn't reduce your rights in this regard. Condition 9.4 is also completely clear that taking the next service is permitted if you miss your connection due to delays:


There is no requirement to have an itinerary to be able to take advantage of this right, although it can help to quickly show that you allowed enough time between trains. The minimum connection time at Derby is 6 minutes so your 9 minute change is more than enough.

There is also no requirement to get permission from station staff or anyone else before boarding a later service. Such permission would only be required if you wanted to take a following service which didn't meet the company or route restrictions specified on your Advance ticket - your Derby to Worcestershire Parkway ticket would likely be "XC only", but in this case XC are the only operator who would be relevant for this journey, so it's a moot point.

It's also worth noting that Trainline charge a booking fee, unlike almost every other retailer out there. They also charge a fee for any changes you want to make to your booking. There are alternative retailers out there, such as XC's own app/website and Railsmartr, that allow you to make the booking fee-free and to change your Advance tickets to another date or time without a fee (just the fare difference, if any). That would give you maximum flexibility in case your plans change, and as mentioned above, there is no need to buy the tickets with a single itinerary in order to have the usual rights associated with split ticketing.

Thank you for this comprehensive reply. I try to avoid the Trainline when I can because of the booking fee, but the split-ticket saving wasn't available on EMR site (didn't check X-Country), and I whilst I appreciate there are other split-ticketing sites around, you can spend ages comparing them all for the sake of saving a pound.

 

[MotCO]

Thank you for this comprehensive reply. I try to avoid the Trainline when I can because of the booking fee, but the split-ticket saving wasn't available on EMR site (didn't check X-Country), and I whilst I appreciate there are other split-ticketing sites around, you can spend ages comparing them all for the sake of saving a pound.

There is always tickets.railforums.co.uk which also makes a contribution to the running of this forum