Do UK commuters pay the highest rail fares in Europe?

[Ellaguru]

http://fullfact.org/blog/UK_Europe_rail_fares_prices_comparisons-2927

"Conclusion
The relative cost of travel obviously varies hugely depending on the distance of travel, the timing of payment, the length of season ticket and whether a return is purchased.
In general, UK train fares are higher than the other seven countries in the study, but at the same time canny customers can get among the best deals on the continent if they plan far enough in advance.
On top of this, UK commuters can enjoy more convenient waiting times due to more frequent services, as long as they are prepared to spend a little longer on the train."

 

[radamfi]

I presume the £70 single in Germany doesn't take into account Bahncards, so it isn't really a fair comparison.

The £-€ exchange rate has made the Eurozone considerably more expensive in recent years, which flatters the UK fares somewhat.

 

[WestCoast]

Yeah, there are a number of issues with direct comparisons, namely the DB Bahncard complication, since anyone can, for a relatively modest sum, knock 25% or 50% off the standard fare.

 

[oattam09]

As a direct comparison, it cost me 3 euros (walk up price) to get from Berlin Schoenfeld Airport to the Haupbahnhof (essentially Berlin Central). The equivalent UK journey on the Stanstead express. That's a tenth of the price. It was bang on time and and loco hauled too!

 

[exile]

That isn't really equivalent, Schoenfeld is a lot closer to Berlin than Stansted is to London. However it's still a lot cheaper per km.

 

[swt_passenger]

Passengers using walk up Anytime fares pay the highest fares in general, anyone meeting the dictionary definition of commuter should be using a season, and getting a huge discount...

 

[exile]

I just paid £11.50 for Warrington to London (single) - which is 6p per mile. I think that would be hard to beat. On the other hand a walk on fare in the morning is £130 or 70p a mile!

 

[gnolife]

I agree that if this thread is about Commuters, then seasons should be what is being discussed
For example, my Manchester Airport to Rose Hill weekly season costs £23.80. This season ticket takes me through Manchester CBD. I'm not sure what a comparable fare would be on the continent, so if anyone would like to do a comparison

 

[trickyvegas]

I agree that if this thread is about Commuters, then seasons should be what is being discussed
For example, my Manchester Airport to Rose Hill weekly season costs £23.80. This season ticket takes me through Manchester CBD. I'm not sure what a comparable fare would be on the continent, so if anyone would like to do a comparison

Same price for my Stalybridge - Bramhall which is 160 miles based on 5 return journeys = 15p/mile. Plus I'll be using it to get to Horwich Parkway and back at the weekend which will about another 50 mile round journey.

 

[radamfi]

I agree that if this thread is about Commuters, then seasons should be what is being discussed
For example, my Manchester Airport to Rose Hill weekly season costs £23.80. This season ticket takes me through Manchester CBD. I'm not sure what a comparable fare would be on the continent, so if anyone would like to do a comparison

Same price for my Stalybridge - Bramhall which is 160 miles based on 5 return journeys = 15p/mile. Plus I'll be using it to get to Horwich Parkway and back at the weekend which will about another 50 mile round journey.

Long distance season tickets within the GM area are very cheap compared to the rest of the country and even compared to the Netherlands. There is a £23.80 cap on weekly season tickets. Manchester Airport to Rose Hill is 20 miles, Stalybridge to Bramhall is 12 miles via Denton, 17 miles via Man Picc, Littleborough to Bryn is 34 miles and they all cost £23.80 per week. The monthly equivalent is £91.40.

A 34 mile = 55 km season ticket would be €282.50 = £248 per month in the Netherlands. A 12 mile = 19 km season ticket would be €112.60 = £98 per month.

By comparison, a 29 mile season ticket from Three Bridges to London Victoria costs £266.90 per month and £290 per month from Three Bridges to London Terminals.

 

[WestCoast]

I agree that if this thread is about Commuters, then seasons should be what is being discussed
For example, my Manchester Airport to Rose Hill weekly season costs £23.80. This season ticket takes me through Manchester CBD. I'm not sure what a comparable fare would be on the continent, so if anyone would like to do a comparison

PTE subsidised fares are often not at the same level as non-PTE fares. I'll do a comparison with Northern non-PTE: Wennington to Lancaster, weekly season is £29.70 for a 15 miles journey.

Rose Hill - Manchester Airport allows many more journeys and is 6 miles longer, plus you can have any season in the GM area for £23.90 a month - so Greenfield to Gathurst is £23.80 and that's 33 miles. By comparison a Wigan NW to Lancaster 7 day season is £53.50, a journey of 36 miles.

So, don't take PTE fares as representative of the whole country, they simply aren't.

 

[radamfi]

One comparison not shown is unlimited travel for one year on the whole network.

Germany = €3,800 = £3,337.
Great Britain = £11,154 (26 x 14 day All Line Rovers - some peak restrictions apply)

 

[WestCoast]

Doing local season ticket comparisons in Germany is a little tricky because every area has its own regulatory body (a bit like a PTE), that sets the fares for all modes of transport, and if you buy a season within their boundaries, they set the tariff.

I picked a circa. 40 miles journey for the "PTE" that covers my area of residence when I'm over there - roughly £39.00 a week, or £23.00 a week for an "after 9.00am" season. You can take someone with you on the weekend, or up to 3 children for free! Discounted by 30% for older students, 50% for children below 15. I don't know what other areas are like.

Like I said, direct comparisons are not easy, since the way the tariff works is different. For example, local seasons may include bus travel or free travel for accompanying people at certain times.

 

[nedchester]

One comparison not shown is unlimited travel for one year on the whole network.

Germany = €3,800 = £3,337.
Great Britain = £11,154 (26 x 14 day All Line Rovers - some peak restrictions apply)

Chap from TSSA on the TV earlier pointing that the way the railways are funded is wrong compared to Europe.

Pointed out that fare rises are used to boost the profits of the TOCs whereas in Europe this is obviously not the case. As he pointed out no other railway is funded the way we do which proves really that the way do it is wrong. Since 1994 the UK has been the only country the privatise its railways.

 

[radamfi]

Since 1994 the UK has been the only country the privatise its railways.

Depends what you call 'privatise'. Some European countries have franchised out some trains that used to be run by national state railway company e.g. Netherlands, Germany, Denmark.

 

[WestCoast]

Depends what you call 'privatise'. Some European countries have franchised out some trains that used to be run by national state railway company e.g. Netherlands, Germany, Denmark.

Indeed they have, with varying degrees of success I may add. In Germany, the local state Government now awards contracts for the running of regional rail services to whoever puts the best bid forward - that could be DB Regio or it could be a private operator. The big difference with the UK is that this new contract usually brings brand new shiny rolling stock with it!

 

[nedchester]

Depends what you call 'privatise'. Some European countries have franchised out some trains that used to be run by national state railway company e.g. Netherlands, Germany, Denmark.

Indeed they have but none have been stupid enough to do what the UK has!

 

[OwlMan]

Of course apart from considering the fares we should consider the average incomes and how much tax is paid to subsidise that Country's railways. Also whether fares are subsidised by local/national authorities (like PTEs). Only once all these and probably other local factors are taken into account does a comparison of fares mean anything.


Peter

 

[gordonthemoron]

Both Switzerland & Austria have discount cards similar to Bahncards

 

[radamfi]

Of course apart from considering the fares we should consider the average incomes

Taking into account incomes will make Britain look even worse. Switzerland in particular appears to be substantially cheaper despite being a super rich, low tax country and having a very strong Swiss Franc.

One years unlimited travel around Switzerland on all public transport, not just trains, can be had for 3,300 francs which is still only about £2,500 despite the historically very unfavourable exchange rate for UK visitors.

 

[supervalkoinen]

About 5 years ago I caught a pristine, punctual, almost empty, cheap train from Vienna to the Neusiedlersee.
When I asked my Austrian friend if there had been any suggestion of rail privatisation, I was told that if anyone mentioned it there was usually a documentary on TV showing how the British system worked and the idea was quickly forgotten.

 

[nedchester]

The British system doesn't work!

 

[Buttsy]

A weekly season Oxford - Reading is currently £56. Using this for 5 days a week means that for a round trip of 300 miles pw equates to just under 19p a mile or 12p per km.
(Hopefully my maths is right)

 

[Flying Snail]

One comparison not shown is unlimited travel for one year on the whole network.

Germany = €3,800 = £3,337.
Great Britain = £11,154 (26 x 14 day All Line Rovers - some peak restrictions apply)

Or €5,868 for the German in Britain (12 x 1 month Britrail, no restrictions)

 

[oattam09]

I agree that if this thread is about Commuters, then seasons should be what is being discussed
For example, my Manchester Airport to Rose Hill weekly season costs £23.80. This season ticket takes me through Manchester CBD. I'm not sure what a comparable fare would be on the continent, so if anyone would like to do a comparison

Its much cheaper, quicker and more punctual on the continent. There you go. Fair one, i'll get my coat.