Do WCML stations have a worse service under VTWC?

[Sheepy1209]

I feel if Virgin went, we'd see even less of a service... They have invested in the community heavily, and a simple brand run in China, just would not have the same affect. That being said, the only real connections for WC are via Crewe from Stafford, which is annoying. Also, Stafford does have about 10 none Liverpool VT services a day, to Preston, Crewe, Birmingham, Blackpool (Soon!), Glasgow.

Didn't think the Blackpools were stopping at Stafford? (My vote would be Nuneaton by the way, but for purely selfish reasons).

I see the Blackpool - Eustons are timed to leave Preston 3 minutes after the via-Birmingham trains - that's going to be fun even if they're on time, never mind when they're not!

 

[DenmarkRail]

Didn't think the Blackpools were stopping at Stafford? (My vote would be Nuneaton by the way, but for purely selfish reasons).

I see the Blackpool - Eustons are timed to leave Preston 3 minutes after the via-Birmingham trains - that's going to be fun even if they're on time, never mind when they're not!

One of the prestons have been replaced with a Blackpool. Just the 1.

 

[JonathanH]

Virgin are starting up their Blackpool North - Euston services from May using mainly Pendolinos.
The new services are already in the May schedule however what I do find annoying with Virgin Trains is the calling pattern. First stop Rugby then fast to Warrington.
Every 2 hours starting at 0646 from Euston. No calls at Watford, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Stafford or Crewe or even Tamworth.

Each one illustrates the issues with pathing additional trains (and stops) on the West Coast Main Line.

0646 has 3 minutes pathing at Bletchley because of the 0643 stopping immediately in front of it. This path is of course only available because the WMT Crewe service doesn't run that hour.
0853 has 1½ minutes at Watford Junction because of the 0849 stopping immediately in front of it and then some more at Tring for the 0849 to cross at Ledburn Junction. The Rugby stop allows the 0900 to Manchester past. It then a) has pathing time at Crewe because it needs to run behind a Birmingham to Liverpool train and then b) has to run non stop through Crewe to keep out of the way of the 0907 to Liverpool bearing down on it.
1036 whilst stopped at Rugby lets the 1040 to Manchester past and then follows it to Crewe. I guess this is effectively a relief to the 1030 Glasgow service.

 

[All Line Rover]

Each one illustrates the issues with pathing additional trains (and stops) on the West Coast Main Line.

0646 has 3 minutes pathing at Bletchley because of the 0643 stopping immediately in front of it. This path is of course only available because the WMT Crewe service doesn't run that hour.

So why doesn't the 06:46 just call at Milton Keynes? If a 06:46 Euston to Crewe stopping service existed (which should be the case), it would call at Milton Keynes, like every other Euston to Crewe stopping service.

 

[All Line Rover]

0853 has 1½ minutes at Watford Junction because of the 0849 stopping immediately in front of it and then some more at Tring for the 0849 to cross at Ledburn Junction. The Rugby stop allows the 0900 to Manchester past. It then a) has pathing time at Crewe because it needs to run behind a Birmingham to Liverpool train and then b) has to run non stop through Crewe to keep out of the way of the 0907 to Liverpool bearing down on it.

Another question. I thought all Birmingham to Liverpool services ran on the slow lines. Where is the potential conflict? If platform availability, what about platform 12?

Also, it is exceptional for the Liverpool trains to arrive in Crewe on time, let alone earlier than their scheduled arrival time of xx:41 (though they often manage to depart on time at xx:43). I struggle to see how a 10:35 call on the Blackpool service would be any worse than the current hourly 'problem' of the xx:10 arrival (Euston to Manchester) bearing down on the almost-always-late-running xx:07 arrival (Birmingham to Scotland). And of course, the 10:36 Euston to Blackpool service, by aiming to pass through Crewe at 12:14, will "bear down on" the 12:10 from Euston (to Manchester) which in turns "bears down on" the 12:07 from Birmingham (to Scotland).

 

[SeanM1997]

Another question. I thought all Birmingham to Liverpool services ran on the slow lines. Where is the potential conflict? If platform availability, what about platform 12?

Also, it is exceptional for the Liverpool trains to arrive in Crewe on time, let alone earlier than their scheduled arrival time of xx:41 (though they often manage to depart on time at xx:43). I struggle to see how a 10:35 call on the Blackpool service would be any worse than the current hourly 'problem' of the xx:10 arrival (Euston to Manchester) bearing down on the almost-always-late-running xx:07 arrival (Birmingham to Scotland). And of course, the 10:36 Euston to Blackpool service, by aiming to pass through Crewe at 12:14, will "bear down on" the 12:10 from Euston (to Manchester) which in turns "bears down on" the 12:07 from Birmingham (to Scotland).

I for one would like to see this service calling at Crewe. It would help provide better connectivity between Rugby and Chester, Stoke, Shrewsbury and Wilmslow, as well as providing additional capacity between Crewe and Warrington/Wigan/Preston which at present can be very busy, and when a 5 car service can mean standing all the way to Preston. It would also help provide better connectivity from Blackpool to Trent Valley, West Midlands, Wales and Derby

 

[Mutant Lemming]

That said, I'll take Virgin's outstanding customer service, any day, .

hmmm... at least in BR days they didn't just say the jobs ballsed you're stuck in Birmingham. Giving you a kiddies food box in first isn't what I would class as 'outstanding'... still could be worse - could be on the East Coast.

 

[Ianno87]

So why doesn't the 06:46 just call at Milton Keynes? If a 06:46 Euston to Crewe stopping service existed (which should be the case), it would call at Milton Keynes, like every other Euston to Crewe stopping service.

Timetable compliance-wise I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

However it would require one of the calling services to use Platform 5 - which renders that platform unusable for regulating the Up peak Fast Line service (an Up Pendo would be calling about the same time booked in P4, which may need to be occasionally sent to P5 to bw overtaken when there is late running about).

 

[pt_mad]

Virgin are starting up their Blackpool North - Euston services from May using mainly Pendolinos.
The new services are already in the May schedule however what I do find annoying with Virgin Trains is the calling pattern. First stop Rugby then fast to Warrington.
Every 2 hours starting at 0646 from Euston. No calls at Watford, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Stafford or Crewe or even Tamworth.

As others have said in this thread the VWC timetable is not very good for connecting purposes.
Before the west coast upgrade you would have sensible connections and direct services very two hours from Watford and Milton Keynes to Manchester, Liverpool and Preston.
Both Nuneaton and Stafford had direct services to the north. Nothing now.
DfT is responsible for much but Virgin Trains is weak and would be pleased to see them go. Less Virgin hype and hysteria and more of customer service and attention to detail would not go a miss from VT.

I don't think Blackpool services every 2 hours is correct. I understand it's 3 extra return services per day. I.e. 3 services in each direction on top of the existing one?


Also, re Virgin hype. As is being discussed in another thread, it may be that the brand for the next WCML franchise has to be non operator specific. I.e. generic. So that it can be handed on to future franchisees without a rebrand.
We won't know for sure until the ITT is released.

 

[backontrack]

Penrith has suffered a service cut at some point, which seems to me to be rather undeserved.

 

[pt_mad]

In fact, strike that, another user in the West Coast Franchise thread says fact that the West Coast Partnership franchise prospectus says that branding must be non operator specific.

So if that's true, it surely couldn't be VT anymore. Would have to presumably be 'x x railway/express, operated by Stagecoach Virgin'?

 

[LondonAbi]

I did a bit back - and one I opposed when the 2004 TT was put in (which worked very well) - but the revenue from Watford to Manchester / Liverpool etc was not inconsiderable. Rebalancing once HS2 is alive I reckon.

ChiefPlanner - I have a query which you may be able to help with.

It concerns a train service running from Watford Junction to Manchester Piccadilly on 3rd May 2004.

What I need to know is:

1. Which train line was running this service on that date? (Was it Virgin etc?)
2. If there is any way of finding out about a specific service (the 6:11pm train which was due to arrive into Manchester at 8:39pm) and if the train arrived on schedule.

I know it's a long shot but please let me know if you have any suggestions!!!

Thanks v much,

LondonAbi

 

[ChiefPlanner]

ChiefPlanner - I have a query which you may be able to help with.

It concerns a train service running from Watford Junction to Manchester Piccadilly on 3rd May 2004.

What I need to know is:

1. Which train line was running this service on that date? (Was it Virgin etc?)
2. If there is any way of finding out about a specific service (the 6:11pm train which was due to arrive into Manchester at 8:39pm) and if the train arrived on schedule.

I know it's a long shot but please let me know if you have any suggestions!!!

Thanks v much,

LondonAbi

An awful long time ago , and it is very doubtful if easily accessible records now exist , certainly nothing on the Internet etc. You would be best advised to ask VWC direct - even then they might not be able to help as train running / Control records of a paper nature would be archived somewhere fairly safe.

There was basically a 2 hourly interval service in those days , from Watford to Manchester. Do not think from a fertile brain there was anything else around of that nature.....

 

[Bald Rick]

To add to the Guv’nor’s reply; yes it was Virgin (West Coast); and it is extremely unlikely that any records of the punctuality of that particular train survive.