Do you notice how a bus is driven?

[cambsy]

I personally enjoy a coach driver driving hard and fast, and have had quite a few of these runs over the years; from over 80mph on motorways, to belting along A roads and speeding through villages etc. My most recent fast run was a very early morning Plymouth to Penzance journey where we left 10 mins late and by Newquay we were early. We waited 8 mins at Cambourne, then arrived at Penzance 4 mins early. We could have been somewhat earlier, but the driver didn't want to arrive at Penzance too early. He drove hard and was a bit over the limit at times.

I find that lately with coach journeys, most are driven at reasonable speed, within say 5mph of speed limit, and most coach drivers seem to be relaxed with losing time, which was not the attitude in years past. When chatting with coach drivers they have said that they been told not to worry if they're running late, and that there's no need to speed to make up time.

 

[Goldfish62]

When chatting with coach drivers they have said that they been told not to worry if they're running late, and that there's no need to speed to make up time.

Quite right too. The consequences of a serious accident due to a coach being driven "hard and fast" shouldn't need spelling out.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Being the son of a driver, the standard of driving has always been something that I am drawn to. My dad was a very steady driver and I used to join him on a Saturday afternoon (after shopping with my mum) in the 1980s. There was always the excitement of a last journey on a shift where he would drive somewhat faster before waiting time at the penultimate stop and cashing up - this was in the days of waybills and cashbags etc. A way of saving depot time. However, he was acutely aware of how drivers could abuse vehicles and that it would ultimately have to be paid for by the workforce. I clearly remember him remonstrating with one of his colleagues for performing a brutal gearchange on a VR! There is a National Bus Company video on YouTube which is very much "of its time" about such things. Of course, modern vehicles require much less driver intervention.

There have been some exhilarating journeys that spring to mind. A Tees and District Bristol LH along the A689 from Hartlepool towards Stockton and the speedo was showing 70mph - I can well believe it was accurate. Or a Stagecoach Hampshire Bus VR on the A30 from Andover to Salisbury - a very spirited journey! Most recently, I can recall two particular journeys that were verging on the dangerous. One was a Diamond West Midlands MPD from Willenhall to Bilston , and a Banga Travel (!) Solo from Wolverhampton to Bilston - perhaps it has something to do with Bilston but both were more a case of aiming the vehicle rather than driving it.

 

[M803UYA]

Quite right too. The consequences of a serious accident due to a coach being driven "hard and fast" shouldn't need spelling out.

I've been driving 3 and a half years now and had a few accidents in my first few months driving and none since. All of them took place when I was 'in a hurry' and had been put upon by my employer to get somewhere faster. I take the view now if people cannot plan work properly then the resulting delay isn't my problem. I drive special needs children on a schools contract with a minibus now. Whilst other drivers to my school race to get there I'm content to sit in lane 1 of the motorway around 50mph in 5th/6th gear. I get there a few minutes after them but my passengers are less on edge than ones who've got there in a Nigel Mansell driven bus.

I now know the time my present run will take to complete, and we can have variables depending on the motorway and the level of traffic. If there's an accident we divert. I have built in 'buffer' time to my run so that if we need to do that we'll arrive just as the school doors open - but as with scheduling buses, assume you start on time and then you don't have to 'make up time' en route.

Obviously from time to time you'll get held up, but I'm much more relaxed about it now. I find it evens out over the school year - sometimes we'll have fewer children on the bus so we complete our run faster. Why rush on work when you've no need to??

Out of the 7 buses my employer has I have the lowest fuel bill of them all despite working the highest mileage run- which says something for being a tortoise I suppose!

So I notice when other people rush around and most bus journeys I took (as a passenger) were forgettable because the drivers drove as they should do. I only remember the ones who don't.

The last bus I travelled in was on the Isle of Mull, where a West Coast Motors driver was manhandling his double decker down some very narrow lanes with great ease. He left 10 minutes late, but drove in such a way that we didn't feel the fact he was recovering some of that time. Then I went to Calgary on the 494 from Tobermory which was 'hairy' to say the least. The driver didn't get above 25mph all the way around such was the nature of the route. Hairpin bends on steep hills and the need to be a little assertive with oncoming cars left me impressed with how easy he made that look. Obviously he does it all the time, but if you're ever there it's a route that should be done!

Perhaps the worst journey I've ever done was in December 2003, on a First Devon & Cornwall (as it was then) X10 service out of Newquay in the afternoon. The coach's windscreen wipers failed at Wadebridge and a replacement vehicle was sent from St Austell. We were 1 hour late and the surly driver set about recovering the lost time. It didn't matter that it was heavily raining and the A30 was somewhat twisty, this coach was driven at maximum speed for the road all the way back. One of the passengers got off on the Cornish border and had a stand up row with him about his driving, but that had no effect on how the vehicle was driven. Whilst I didn't complain, I'm sure some of the other passengers did.

 

[Geordie driver]

Being the son of a driver, the standard of driving has always been something that I am drawn to. My dad was a very steady driver and I used to join him on a Saturday afternoon (after shopping with my mum) in the 1980s. There was always the excitement of a last journey on a shift where he would drive somewhat faster before waiting time at the penultimate stop and cashing up - this was in the days of waybills and cashbags etc. A way of saving depot time. However, he was acutely aware of how drivers could abuse vehicles and that it would ultimately have to be paid for by the workforce. I clearly remember him remonstrating with one of his colleagues for performing a brutal gearchange on a VR! There is a National Bus Company video on YouTube which is very much "of its time" about such things. Of course, modern vehicles require much less driver intervention.

There have been some exhilarating journeys that spring to mind. A Tees and District Bristol LH along the A689 from Hartlepool towards Stockton and the speedo was showing 70mph - I can well believe it was accurate. Or a Stagecoach Hampshire Bus VR on the A30 from Andover to Salisbury - a very spirited journey! Most recently, I can recall two particular journeys that were verging on the dangerous. One was a Diamond West Midlands MPD from Willenhall to Bilston , and a Banga Travel (!) Solo from Wolverhampton to Bilston - perhaps it has something to do with Bilston but both were more a case of aiming the vehicle rather than driving it.

Regarding the VR gear change, when I passed my test I had only ever driven a manual bus. They took us to the depot for vehicle familiarisation but the were no VRs ( or REs for that matter) in the depot, so we didn't get shown how to change gear.

My first ever service run was a VR and the driver training me had to show me how to pause between gears, if he hadn't I would have been none the wiser.

When I read the trips out thread at the top of this section of the forum I am surprised how few are critical of the driver.

I admit to being a poor passenger, drivers are either too fast or too slow. Some drivers are very right handed and use the ticket machine and even make change using their right hand, this drives me nuts!

Some drivers drag the road and appear to be deliberately running late, this is often due to having very minimal breaks, if they arrive late their next run gets covered and they get a decent break.

Not that I have ever done that mind.

 

[notadriver]

I believe I got scored badly on a driving assessment because the instructor thought I had an attitude problem.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Regarding the VR gear change, when I passed my test I had only ever driven a manual bus. They took us to the depot for vehicle familiarisation but the were no VRs ( or REs for that matter) in the depot, so we didn't get shown how to change gear.

My first ever service run was a VR and the driver training me had to show me how to pause between gears, if he hadn't I would have been none the wiser.

When I read the trips out thread at the top of this section of the forum I am surprised how few are critical of the driver.

I assume you passed your test in a cream Lodekka with a crash gearbox?

The colleague that my dad had a lively interaction with was experienced enough to know better and known to be gung-ho. TBF, I knew how it should be done with a semi-auto gearbox and I was a kid!

I've experienced some poor drivers and, as I said, two in the West Midlands were bordering on dangerous. I do have some sympathy for some drivers; Streetlites are known for their sharp brakes, though some folks are just heavy footed. For balance, I travelled on the Exmoor Coaster last year, and the driver of that Scania O/T was superb.

 

[Geordie driver]

I assume you passed your test in a cream Lodekka with a crash gearbox?

Indeed, fleet number 107 iirc, you might know it.

"Modern" buses like VRs and REs were a doddle after the Lodekka.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed, fleet number 107 iirc, you might know it.

"Modern" buses like VRs and REs were a doddle after the Lodekka.

Number 100 was usually parked up in Darlington bus station!

It was a bit of a rude awakening when United bought three Leopards from Western SMT that had crash gearboxes - naturally, they allocated them to urban work in Middlesbrough alongside loads of Nationals!

Have to say that the vast majority of drivers are very good, trained in the art of defensive driving. Don't know how they manage it

 

[Goldfish62]

I've experienced some poor drivers and, as I said, two in the West Midlands were bordering on dangerous. I do have some sympathy for some drivers; Streetlites are known for their sharp brakes, though some folks are just heavy footed. For balance, I travelled on the Exmoor Coaster last year, and the driver of that Scania O/T was superb.

E200s with Voith gearboxes are virtually impossible to brake smoothly.

 

[GusB]

If anyone wishes to discuss the differences between various gearboxes, feel free to do so in a separate thread. Thanks

 

[90sWereBetter]

I get very cross if I end up with a slow, cautious driver on the commute home, whereas I rejoice if a fast driver is behind the wheel.

 

[Geordie driver]

Number 100 was usually parked up in Darlington bus station!

It was a bit of a rude awakening when United bought three Leopards from Western SMT that had crash gearboxes - naturally, they allocated them to urban work in Middlesbrough alongside loads of Nationals!

Have to say that the vast majority of drivers are very good, trained in the art of defensive driving. Don't know how they manage it

At the risk of going off topic, all my training was done out of Darlington, National express from Gallowgate to Darlington then a day tootling about County Durham.

I did my ticket machine training in spring 1985 with a Blyth conductor, possible the last conductor United employed.

Regarding driving standards, most drivers are ok, many are great, there are only a few poor and driving in modern traffic soon weeds out the worst.

 

[Typhoon]

Yes, but mainly on routes I rarely use as I am looking out for the stop before so I can ring the bell/ warn the driver (where no bell exists). I went on a journey yesterday which included routes I have been on two or three times ever, plus a new route mostly in rural occasions. I thought the standard of driving was good or (much/) better. I guess that in most cases the drivers were familiar with the routes but still the state of some roads tended to make smooth running difficult. Other impediments were the weight of traffic/ inconsiderate parking/ plain awful driving by other road users. How drivers are expected to keep to some timetables I have no idea. One journey involves turning right at a particular set of traffic lights twice; on the second occasion the traffic was hardly moving so the lights would change but the bus would hardly move forward or stay stationary, and it wasn't even 16:30.

What did surprise me was that on two occasions I was on a bus were another bus (same company) was travelling between the same two stops and the drivers adopted different approaches/ used different lanes. In one case this was at a roundabout, in another it was at traffic lights where both buses had to turn right than right again shortly afterwards. Perhaps it was just individuality, but I was not expecting it.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I admit it, I am about more lead footed than most.

 

[RJ]

I've had a Few Journeys where the Journey Started about 20-25 minutes down due to the inward Journey being late in Rush hour traffic. There then followed a Painfully slow Driver Changeover with the New Driver perfectly happy to chat to his Collegue for a good 5 minutes before again taking his time setting up his ticket machine etc..
We must have eventually left a good 35 mins late and THEN, on the Main Road Running Sectons of this Trunk interurban Route, was content to pootle along at 15mph or so whistling to himself with a Queue building behind him!

There’ll be some drivers who do their best to lose mileage by holding out for a curtailment, or want to finish late so they can claim an overtime payment. Sometimes it’s done as an act of rebellion if a controller has upset them.

Nothing can be said about it as it’s usually done under the veil of “safe driving”. But the bigger picture often isn’t considered - once a driver has their card marked as a serial service saboteur, they may well find that they’re treated with less leniency than they could be should they ever do anything which gets them a disciplinary.

 

[Eyersey468]

Regarding braking, sometimes it depends on the type of vehicle as to how smooth it is. Our 55 and 06 reg Volvo B7TLs are impossible to get smooth braking on no matter how hard you try, either nothing happens or the bus stands on its nose.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I tend to notice the drivers who:

Pull up well beyond the bus stop raised pavement (without being forced to by badly parked vehicles)

Arrive at the bus station stand from the layover area at their booked departure time so they are inevitably late leaving (extra points for those who then disappear to the loo for 5 minutes)

Try to drop passengers at a particular stop the service isn't supposed to call at because they don't know the route properly

Insist on further delaying an already late service by being getting into disputes with passengers about ticket validity - especially on cross boundary services where there's a good chance of the Ticketer rejecting valid tickets that the driver isn't familiar with


I don't tend to notice much about the actual driving style, other than whether the driver's response to an excessively padded timetable is to drive at 18mph, impeding traffic on a significant A Road, or drive at a normal speed such that the bus is unreasonably early at intermediate stops prior to the next timing point where it then waits for 10 minutes. A no-win situation for the driver.

 

[rg177]

As someone who frequents the Coast Road corridor up near Newcastle, I always notice whether a driver chooses to do about 30-35mph down the motorway or instead goes absolutely hell for leather and hammers it.

Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when it happens, thought I'd imagine that the former is better for fuel economy and the like...

 

[Geordie driver]

As someone who frequents the Coast Road corridor up near Newcastle, I always notice whether a driver chooses to do about 30-35mph down the motorway or instead goes absolutely hell for leather and hammers it.

Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when it happens, thought I'd imagine that the former is better for fuel economy and the like...

Some of our vehicles had a top speed of 32 mph, it would be impossible to go any faster on any road. Done many a 306 in an MCW.

 

[rg177]

Some of our vehicles had a top speed of 32 mph, it would be impossible to go any faster on any road. Done many a 306 in an MCW.

Indeed in times past I can imagine it was a lot harder to go faster! The oldest vehicle I remember getting as a kid on the 306 was the Roe-bodied Olympian that managed to last into the late 2000s (CUB 68Y I believe)

These days, my observations are usually from the same batch of B9s allocated to the 309/310/311.

 

[Geordie driver]

Indeed in times past I can imagine it was a lot harder to go faster! The oldest vehicle I remember getting as a kid on the 306 was the Roe-bodied Olympian that managed to last into the late 2000s (CUB 68Y I believe)

These days, my observations are usually from the same batch of B9s allocated to the 309/310/311.

I have no idea about Go Ahead (I would call them Northern!), but Arriva has a habit of putting buses out in limp mode. You will often find drivers, who are working at the maximum of their hours and are due a 30 minute break, will lose time in order to increase that break.

 

[Cowley]

I’ve got two recent experiences that are probably worth sharing here.

1) I caught the Stagecoach Falcon service from Exeter to Bristol Airport and back recently as I was going to Northern Ireland for the weekend and on the return journey I actually did take note of how smoothly the driver had been. Just the right combination of getting the job done, keeping to time, but also not throwing people around on corners or tailgating etc.
Very relaxing and I complimented him on a good job when I got off (which he looked like he genuinely appreciated).

2) Coming back from France on Sunday night just gone. We’d caught the tram from the centre of Bordeaux out to Merignac to then get the Number 1 bus to the airport.
Sitting at the bus stop as the time ticked by and more and more slightly anxious looking passengers started to gather, eventually the white bendy bus appeared in the distance before screeching to a halt in front of us with what could only be described as a London Underground Monday morning style crush load situation going on.

We managed to wedge ourselves into the rear section and the bus took off at a great rate of knots bouncing over speed bumps and bottoming out every time we crossed the new bits of tram line to the airport that are currently being installed. He didn’t slow down for any of the roundabouts and people were falling into each other left right and centre, then at one point he completely misjudged some roadworks at another roundabout meaning that he had to do an emergency stop, before reversing and having another bite, whereupon he knocked a sign over and then (once the loud scraping sounds had subsided) he jammed the bus into forward gear and just ran the sign over as we shot off again.

I didn’t say thanks to the driver, but I did enjoy the chaos of it.

 

[andythebrave]

At the risk of showing my age, reading this thread reminds me of the Bob Newhart monologue "Bus Drivers School," I see it is available on YouTube but cannot paste a link due to terminal incompetence. Still raises a laugh.

 

[RJ]

Regarding braking, sometimes it depends on the type of vehicle as to how smooth it is. Our 55 and 06 reg Volvo B7TLs are impossible to get smooth braking on no matter how hard you try, either nothing happens or the bus stands on its nose.

With Voith transmissions I usually brake much earlier than normal to give the retarder time to engage and do its thing. Once it's operating braking tends to be moderately smooth.

 

[Eyersey468]

With Voith transmissions I usually brake much earlier than normal to give the retarder time to engage and do its thing. Once it's operating braking tends to be moderately smooth.

They are ZF transmissions not Voith, I've never been sure why they are so bad at braking, though some are worse than others

 

[eh1]

With Voith transmissions I usually brake much earlier than normal to give the retarder time to engage and do its thing. Once it's operating braking tends to be moderately smooth.

The Voiths I've driven (11 plate Volvo B9s) have a real kick to them the moment you go near the pedal - some can be quite unpredictable, some smooth out after that. The ZF examples I've driven, same age and mileage are much better to drive.

 

[RJ]

They are ZF transmissions not Voith, I've never been sure why they are so bad at braking, though some are worse than others

55/06 plate ZFs? I operate two of these and no issues with the retarders at all!

 

[Eyersey468]

55/06 plate ZFs? I operate two of these and no issues with the retarders at all!

Maybe ours are just a dodgy batch then.

 

[rg177]

We managed to wedge ourselves into the rear section and the bus took off at a great rate of knots bouncing over speed bumps and bottoming out every time we crossed the new bits of tram line to the airport that are currently being installed. He didn’t slow down for any of the roundabouts and people were falling into each other left right and centre, then at one point he completely misjudged some roadworks at another roundabout meaning that he had to do an emergency stop, before reversing and having another bite, whereupon he knocked a sign over and then (once the loud scraping sounds had subsided) he jammed the bus into forward gear and just ran the sign over as we shot off again.

I've caught this service before (back in March) and it was again, utterly wedged. The driver was a rather formidable woman who looked to be in her early sixties and she was taking absolutely no prisoners with passengers nor with other traffic. I managed to nab the front seat so had quite the view of everything.

Still, not as bad as the Porto Airport bus I caught last year. The driver steered with his knees while he sent WhatsApp voicenotes at 40mph down residential streets. Still, he clawed back our delay, and then some.