Do you think operators will order the Optare Solo as enthusiastically as they did prior to restarting production?

[RacsoMoquette]

I recently heard Switch are restarting production of the Solo, albeit under the Optare brand. They will be Euro V1 and will be of the SR model, I understand Stagecoach has ordered sixty to replace existing Solos regionally. Do you think operators akin to Arriva and First will also order a fleet? Or has the Mellor Strata taken all the Solos popularity!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I recently heard Switch are restarting production of the Solo, albeit under the Optare brand. They will be Euro V1 and will be of the SR model, I understand Stagecoach has ordered sixty to replace existing Solos regionally. Do you think operators akin to Arriva and First will also order a fleet? Or has the Mellor Strata taken all the Solos popularity!

The Solo competes more with the small and midsized Enviro 200, only the smallest version (which is very rare) competes with the Mellor Strata.

The Strata isn't (for the passenger) a very good bus, it's just a low floor version of the classic Vario/Plaxton Beaver breadvan minibus. It's only really suitable for where costs are of the absolute essence or the route isn't viable.

 

[Ken H]

What are the fuel consumptions of the Solo and competitors? That will be the deciding factor these days.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

I wonder why Optare Solo orders were selling rather poorly prior to Switch announcing the end of diesel vehicle production, Only a few being ordered by independents and the minimal order from Stagecoach Highlands for operation in Orkney. Now Switch has announced it will restart production, It will be interesting if orders remain poor or improve?

It also seems as though vehicles akin to the Illesbus EVM Cityline also seem lucrative with operators and van based minibuses seem favorable.

Alexander Dennis seem to be in a successful situation with their Enviro200MMC, with many orders placed with UK bus operators recently, I like to think that Switch have amended their reputation for poor delivery schedules and quality control, recently their Metrocities for TUK, Arriva and Stagecoach have not appeared to be to behind schedule, and those that are late, it is due to difficulties in the erection of Charging infrastructure at depots, not the fault of the bus or the manufacture.
I wonder if operators would have noticed this, and maybe bear a little more trust in Switches products. It will be extremely interesting to see what the outcome is!

 

[GusB]

This was actually announced back in October and was discussed in the Manufacturer news thread at the time.

The announcement (with source) is here:

Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Car makers do it to hide design changes, presumably because they think other firms will copy them... ‍:rolleyes: Oh no, I know that. Looking at the headlights, though, there's a definite change in line with TfL-spec buses! All I can say from the StreetDeck image I can't exactly get the source...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Jordan Adam]

The Solo competes more with the small and midsized Enviro 200, only the smallest version (which is very rare) competes with the Mellor Strata.

I would disagree with this. The Mellor Strata is offered at three different lengths the largest of which has 30 seats and directly competes with the mid-sized sub 9 metre Optare Solo which historically was by far the most popular variant. Its only the longest wheelbase variant of the Solo that lacks a Mellor Strata equivalent.

To answer the original post, i think it'll mostly come down to purchasing costs and build times. That latter especially is what Optare have struggled with in the past.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

For a small bus, personally I don't think there's anything on the market from a passenger point of view that is anywhere near as comfortable. The closest would be the Merc Sprinter conversions and even they're not great, in my opinion.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do you think operators akin to Arriva and First will also order a fleet? Or has the Mellor Strata taken all the Solos popularity!

Well.... the Mellor Strata hasn't exactly set the world alight since 2017. Rotala got about 40 of them (and some are back off lease???) and Transdev got 35. Other than that, orders are fairly sporadic.

The issue with Optare was the build times were painful. That said, those who've been watching the Ilesbus Mercs for First Kernow will know what a long build time is!!

 

[RJ]

After the trouble I had with Switch trying to place an order parts for my Tempo, I wouldn’t buy a Solo myself - in fact I want rid of the Tempo following that experience!

 

[Mollman]

After the trouble I had with Switch trying to place an order parts for my Tempo, I wouldn’t buy a Solo myself - in fact I want rid of the Tempo following that experience!

And I think that answers the OP's question. Too many operators have been bitten by Optare/Switch's poor after sales to be queuing up to order Solos. Some might look at buying a small batch at first but Switch will have to up it's game to get large repeat orders.

 

[RJ]

And I think that answers the OP's question. Too many operators have been bitten by Optare/Switch's poor after sales to be queuing up to order Solos. Some might look at buying a small batch at first but Switch will have to up it's game to get large repeat orders.

To be fair it might be that my own expectations are unrealistic.

They have a webshop where I found the part numbers. But the ordering function had been withdrawn. So I phoned them and they don’t take orders over the phone, they said the only way to place an order is by email. So I did that. Bearing in mind I already had the part numbers and confirmed what I needed, there was a lot of to and fro then I found I had to keep chasing them for a response.

Finally they replied and said their system was down and they were unable to take any orders.

Bearing in mind this episode was going on for over a week with still no order confirmed, I found another supplier for the part who shipped it next day and the bus was back out working.

This service works perfectly well for some so it may well be that my expectations simply aren’t aligned with their preferred way of handling orders but ultimately a vehicle off the road costs money. I’m more used to manufacturers who can take an order straight away, check stocks and provide an ETA for delivery. On that basis I wouldn’t buy a vehicle from a manufacturer who make it difficult to obtain parts from.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think it depends largely on quality, reliability and as alluded to earlier, after sales

ADL have certainly taken a large chunk of their market but I can't be the only one who finds riding in and no doubt driving or working on and ADL product a part of life that they'd really rather not repeat and we'll never get back, if the 2024 onwards Optare can deliver on this as well as the other world documented problem of lead times then they could well be onto a winner especially if they decide ultimately to do something really niche like continuing to build decent quality diesel buses long after other manufacturers have scaled this aspect down in favor of EV or hydrogen. The short ride I had on a early 2020 built example last year seriously impressed me in terms of passenger experience and the cheery female driver also seemed to be enjoying herself and that to me speaks volumes as I was previously as critical of the early or mid generation optare as I am of pretty much anything that comes out of Falkirk or Scarborough and rattles from the moment it leaves

 

[Goldfish62]

I recently heard Switch are restarting production of the Solo, albeit under the Optare brand. They will be Euro V1 and will be of the SR model, I understand Stagecoach has ordered sixty to replace existing Solos regionally. Do you think operators akin to Arriva and First will also order a fleet? Or has the Mellor Strata taken all the Solos popularity!

Unless it's for contract and special services First won't. They've already committed to 100% EV for new buses (perhaps unwisely early) and it wouldn't looked at all good if they went back on this commitment.

Personally I don't see why Solo orders should suddenly take off now when they never really did in the past. As others have mentioned late deliveries and poor aftersales are a serious impediment.

Say what you like about ADL and their rattly products (poor build quality, or poor design, or both?), but their aftersales have a reputation for being second to none.

 

[Snex]

Seen a few people mention ADL have took their market but have they? They used to be hundreds and hundreds MPD's running around, much more that I can think of short Enviro 200 MMC's.

Surely the bigger problem is operators have been cutting back routes and naturally the routes which have bit the bullet are those with lower capacities as the money isn't there. Just thinking in the North East, Arriva Northumbria used to have an allocation of easily 20+ of the type a few year back, it's now down to 7 and there's talk that's going to be reduced even further to 2 in the future. Just comparing a fleetlist from 2020 to now, there's been a reduction of roughly 50 buses of the type in the past 4 year in the whole of Arriva North East. GoNorthEast is very much the same, with lots being withdrawn and not replaced at all.

 

[Mwanesh]

I think it depends largely on quality, reliability and as alluded to earlier, after sales

ADL have certainly taken a large chunk of their market but I can't be the only one who finds riding in and no doubt driving or working on and ADL product a part of life that they'd really rather not repeat and we'll never get back, if the 2024 onwards Optare can deliver on this as well as the other world documented problem of lead times then they could well be onto a winner especially if they decide ultimately to do something really niche like continuing to build decent quality diesel buses long after other manufacturers have scaled this aspect down in favor of EV or hydrogen. The short ride I had on a early 2020 built example last year seriously impressed me in terms of passenger experience and the cheery female driver also seemed to be enjoying herself and that to me speaks volumes as I was previously as critical of the early or mid generation optare as I am of pretty much anything that comes out of Falkirk or Scarborough and rattles from the moment it leaves

As a driver don't see much difference in buses. As long as it does the job no problem.