Dodgers

[EbbwJunction1]

My daughter was sold a child ticket recently, she just asked for a "return to Crawley" and thought it was cheap and it wasn't until later she realised it was a child ticket. She is 22 but still looks like she's of school age

And had she been stopped by an RPI while using this ticket, she'd have had the book thrown at her. Which would have been legal within the letter of the law, but morally utterly unfair.

Can I ask a question of any Guard / Conductor or RPI, please?

If this happened to you (i.e. you found that someone had the wrong ticket and the response was that it was someone else's mistake), what would you do? (I'm not trying to trap anyone, I'm just interested.)

 

[Sprinter153]

Can I ask a question of any Guard / Conductor or RPI, please?

If this happened to you (i.e. you found that someone had the wrong ticket and the response was that it was someone else's mistake), what would you do? (I'm not trying to trap anyone, I'm just interested.)

From my point of view (a TM at an intercity TOC)
On the one hand, at least six out of ten ticket irregularities I deal with involve that strange mythical being known as 'the man on the platform' who did or said something that would bear no relation to policy or common sense. Really, it's the passenger's responsibility to check the ticket before travelling, like change in a shop, as mistakes can be difficult to rectify later. If someone's really taking the Mick (and after a while in this job you know when you're being swindled) then a UFN or ticket withdrawal is my first port of call.

On the other hand my pragmatic approach to this is if they genuinely seem to be surprised (or their acting skills impress!) I will offer them the opportunity to excess the ticket to the adult fare, and remind them to check the ticket next time. Obviously next time should it arise I might be less charitable.

 

[TheApproach]

1 40 something bloke tried to convince me his 34 yo girlfriend was 15 for a child fair !
She went mad when I said she looked closer to 50

 

[Antman]

And had she been stopped by an RPI while using this ticket, she'd have had the book thrown at her.

Which would have been legal within the letter of the law, but morally utterly unfair.

Yes I realise it's her responsibility to ensure she is sold the correct ticket in fact I suggested to her that she specifically asks for an adult ticket in the future, that said an RPI would probably assume she was of child ticket age just like the person who sold her the ticket did.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

1 40 something bloke tried to convince me his 34 yo girlfriend was 15 for a child fair !
She went mad when I said she looked closer to 50

Must have made her day, not
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interesting one this evening on a Victoria to Ashford train, female RPI checking tickets and a rather dishevelled man who is somewhat the worse for drink doesn't have one and gives an unlikely excuse about his wallet having been stolen. When she mentions a penalty fare and asks for his details he claims to be of no fixed abode. She went and consulted a colleague, in the end they just asked him to get off at the next stop.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And had she been stopped by an RPI while using this ticket, she'd have had the book thrown at her.

Which would have been legal within the letter of the law, but morally utterly unfair.

Yes I realise it's her responsibility to ensure she is sold the correct ticket, in fact I suggested to her she asks specifically for an adult ticket in the future. That said an RPI would have probably assumed she was of child ticket age just as the person who sold her the ticket did.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

It is the responsibility of the ticket holder to ensure that the ticket they are using is valid for the journey they wish to undertake, regardless of who made the purchase.

 

[LowLevel]

Declaring no fixed abode is a risky move. I've had someone try and use it before to get out of a ticketing issue. Unfortunately for them the regulations say that if a person is of no fixed abode they must be detained by a constable until they can be brought before a magistrate. Thus the issue which started off being fairly minor became a problem for them quite quickly.

 

[Antman]

Declaring no fixed abode is a risky move. I've had someone try and use it before to get out of a ticketing issue. Unfortunately for them the regulations say that if a person is of no fixed abode they must be detained by a constable until they can be brought before a magistrate. Thus the issue which started off being fairly minor became a problem for them quite quickly.

You've got to find a constable in the first place though

 

[londonbridge]

that said an RPI would probably assume she was of child ticket age just like the person who sold her the ticket did.

Working in retail and having to decide when to apply Think 25 and ask someone for ID, I can tel you it's not always easy. There are customers I would ID that my colleagues wouldn't and vice-versa, it all boils down to your perception of the person. I had one customer who I thought appeared to be around 21 or 22, so I asked for ID, the reply was a laugh and a drivers licence showing they were, in fact, 35, but they just had a really young-looking face.

 

[Bellbell]

If I am certain the passenger is 16+ but has asked for a child ticket (maybe because I've run into them before, or clocked their driver's licence etc) I quite often just smile, nod, sell an adult ticket without saying anything and carry on my merry way. Of course this only works if they don't know the prices, but I've done it successfully a few times.

Another favourite is local station X to big city vs intermediate city to big city - the price is the same, but lots get on at local station X and I'd say every weekend someone thinks they've gotten one over me by asking for a ticket from intermediate city. Again, I often just smile, nod and sell them the ticket without comment.

 

[Antman]

Working in retail and having to decide when to apply Think 25 and ask someone for ID, I can tel you it's not always easy. There are customers I would ID that my colleagues wouldn't and vice-versa, it all boils down to your perception of the person. I had one customer who I thought appeared to be around 21 or 22, so I asked for ID, the reply was a laugh and a drivers licence showing they were, in fact, 35, but they just had a really young-looking face.

My daughter is the same, 22 but has a hell of a job getting served alcohol even with ID

 

[Holly]

It is the responsibility of the ticket holder to ensure that the ticket they are using is valid for the journey they wish to undertake, ...

Absolutely you are right on that.

It can sometimes be a very difficult thing to do and is a reason some people, such as my own sister, avoid travelling by rail. For fear making a mistake and being accused of being a criminal.

Not that you can't make a honest mistake and break the law when driving too of course. Avoiding rail has cost her at least one speeding ticket. Despite that she regularly annoys people by driving too slowly.

 

[timbo58]

sprinter153 -spot on attitude IMHO/IME
Low-level -exactly the point I made on more than one occasion to those travelling sans ticket who declared NFA, they found the cash to pay up or got off very meekly when requested to do so thereafter.

The young gent I mentioned earlier fully intended to use the smoking coach (a full coach at that time too -not the coach B =1/2 active smoking and 1/2 passive smoking FGW thought would be a marvellous idea when the overgrown bus company took over GWTC as he had a packet of fags in front of him.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

My daughter is the same, 22 but has a hell of a job getting served alcohol even with ID

I get quite depressed when the till attendant hits the "clearly over 25" button.....

 

[grumblingalong]

I get quite depressed when the till attendant hits the "clearly over 25" button.....

First time I triumphantly strolled into the supermarket having turned 18 they did that. Gutted, absolutely gutted, it still hurts now John at Tesco, still hurts now.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I had one customer who I thought appeared to be around 21 or 22, so I asked for ID, the reply was a laugh and a drivers licence showing they were, in fact, 35, but they just had a really young-looking face.

What was his name? Beau Tox ?

I'll get my coat ...

 

[fowler9]

Me being 41 always brings the house down when buying booze by asking the staff why they never ask me for ID. How they laugh.

 

[zuriblue]

I was doing a job in the States and went in a bar and they asked me for ID. I was quite made up until she told me that they had to card everyone and that she'd had to card an 80 year old the day before.

 

[Deepgreen]

Me being 41 always brings the house down when buying booze by asking the staff why they never ask me for ID. How they laugh.

Several years ago, my (then) 37 year-old wife was asked for ID in California before buying wine - guaranteed to raise a smile!

 

[HowardGWR]

On my SWT 159 the other day, I was pleased to see the guard throwing open the doors of the toilets. It occurred to me that there could be double bluff in that if the toilet were not shewn as engaged, he might have assumed there was no one hiding in it.

Good stuff.

 

[grumblingalong]

On my SWT 159 the other day, I was pleased to see the guard throwing open the doors of the toilets. It occurred to me that there could be double bluff in that if the toilet were not shewn as engaged, he might have assumed there was no one hiding in it.

Good stuff.

A lot of us will do that as standard, also good for teaching people to lock the door!

 

[MassDiscussion]

I still can't believe that there are people who would rather hide in a stinky toilet, than pay for a train ticket.

 

[al78]

I still can't believe that there are people who would rather hide in a stinky toilet, than pay for a train ticket.

A stinky toilet to complement the stinky attitude.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Well, people have a habit of not only failing to tell the traincrew that there is something amiss with the toilet, but of continuing to use said toilet even when it is perfecly obvious that the toilet is unuseable. Makes sense to check the toilet is functional when walking past it....

 

[pdeaves]

Makes sense to check the toilet is functional when walking past it....

Agreed. I do, however, wish the 'checkers' (whether guards or others) would close the door after themselves once the check is complete...

 

[Julia]

It's very common for young adults (16-25 or higher) to buy child tickets and then try and blag it.

I was on a GN at Sandy when one scrote tried to blag that he was 15. Then blew it when asked if he had proof of address to contact his parents, pulled out his "I'm-allowed-to-buy-alcohol" proof of age card...

 

[HowardGWR]

Agreed. I do, however, wish the 'checkers' (whether guards or others) would close the door after themselves once the check is complete...

Especially if it's a Voyager.

Come to think of it, perhaps Voyager toilets are designed to put off people doing that (dodging fare).

 

[175mph]

A lot of us will do that as standard, also good for teaching people to lock the door!

I got caught out by that earlier this week when on a Transpennine train coming back from Grimsby.

I was happy to show my ticket afterwards, but just felt dumb for forgetting to do the obvious, lock the door. (I was so desperate I forgot anything else).

 

[Dr_Paul]

Several years ago, my (then) 37 year-old wife was asked for ID in California before buying wine - guaranteed to raise a smile!

A pal of mine told me recently that his wife had her over-60s Oyster Card checked by an inspector on the bus, and was asked: 'Why are you using your mother's card?' She was rather annoyed at being accused of dishonesty, but also rather pleased that someone thought she was a lot younger than she is.

 

[Rich McLean]

Especially if it's a Voyager.

Come to think of it, perhaps Voyager toilets are designed to put off people doing that (dodging fare).

Don't know about that, I have been on a Voyager before where standing passengers (5 of them IIRC) squeezed into the toilet in order to make room for more passengers (they did have tickets).

 

[Techniquest]

I spent a good 90 minutes or thereabouts reading this thread, found it a fascinating read and insight into what people will do to get out of a fare. As well as how easy it is to make a mistake on the odd occasion.

As for the 'Think 25' thing, as someone who occasionally mans a checkout for queue-busting purposes it can be exceptionally difficult to judge some people. Only ever made a mistake once, which was caused by the young lad (who apparently had turned 18 that day) moving his mother out of the way to pay for the goods. Having not noticed this until the PIN had been inputted, the boss mentioned this and how he didn't look 18. An explanation of the exact circumstance was given, no action required but it was sure nerve-wracking.

So to anyone who doesn't like being ID'd, please do take it as a compliment and understand we don't do it to be awkward, we sometimes have to do it! And yes, even though I'm getting on for 32 I still get ID'd occasionally myself. Some of my fellow colleagues have ID'd me this year, but to their credit they no longer need to.