Does the Luton Airport Express (Corby Class 360s) really need to exist?

[Metal_gee_man]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/disingenious-departure-board-at-london-victoria.249498/


Has anyone made comment on the crazy signage at St Pancras too, does the Luton Airport Express (Corby Class 360s) really need to exist when so many Thameslink services exist

 

[AlbertBeale]

Has anyone made comment on the crazy signage at St Pancras too, does the Luton Airport Express (Corby Class 360s) really need to exist when so many Thameslink services exist

But presumably - unlike the Gatwick Express - this one isn't twice the price? Is it an attempt to get airport passengers onto less-used trains on that route, and ones which are indeed quicker than the Thameslink ones?

 

[stevieinselby]

Has anyone made comment on the crazy signage at St Pancras too, does the Luton Airport Express (Corby Class 360s) really need to exist when so many Thameslink services exist

I don't know what the issue with the signage there is, but yes, it's really useful to have the Corby trains stopping there so that passengers from Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough and points north can get to Luton and the Airport more easily.

 

[43066]

Has anyone made comment on the crazy signage at St Pancras too,

Which signage are you referring to?

The St Pancras departure boards split by operator are a little cumbersome, but aren’t intentionally misleading in the way the ones at Victoria are.

does the Luton Airport Express (Corby Class 360s) really need to exist when so many Thameslink services exist

Off topic to discuss other than as a comparison to GATEX - I’d say EMR is at least offering a substantially quicker journey time than the nearest equivalent, whereas the same can’t honestly be said for GATEX, as noted above. It’s also very well used to and from the airport, which is likely to see significant growth over the next few years.

 

[yorkie]

Has anyone made comment on the crazy signage at St Pancras too, does the Luton Airport Express (Corby Class 360s) really need to exist when so many Thameslink services exist

It is crazy, I'll grant you that.

But EMR are not charging premium fares or abusing a dominant market position! EMR are at least complying with the Ticketing Settlement Agreement and National Rail Conditions of Carriage. The same cannot be said for GTR!

Off topic ....

Agreed; I've moved this debate to a new thread

 

[gordonthemoron]

It’s very handy for heading north from Bedford to Nottingham, Leicester, Derby and Sheffield, with a change at Kettering, unlike the previous piecemeal stopping of MML services at Bedford, which were only during off peak

 

[43066]

But EMR are not charging premium fares or abusing a dominant market position! EMR are at least complying with the Ticketing Settlement Agreement and National Rail Conditions of Carriage. The same cannot be said for GTR!

I seem to remember hearing that EMR tickets can actually work out cheaper than GTR on the London to Luton airport route - in contrast to the controversial “Intercity” pricing for a commuter service for those coming from further north!

 

[Starmill]

Is the question does it need to exist or does it need to be called Luton Airport Express?

If it didn't exist, what service would there be from Corby or Wellingborough? What service would run between Bedford and Kettering?

It’s very handy for heading north from Bedford to Nottingham, Leicester, Derby and Sheffield, with a change at Kettering, unlike the previous piecemeal stopping of MML services at Bedford, which were only during off peak

You can't get trains from Kettering to Derby or Sheffield any more, save one or two per day at unpopular hours. You have to change twice from Bedford to make these journeys.

 

[Iskra]

I seem to remember hearing that EMR tickets can actually work out cheaper than GTR on the London to Luton airport route - in contrast to the controversial “Intercity” pricing for a commuter service for those coming from further north!

Is the airport express branding, an attempt to justify those prices?

Is the question does it need to exist or does it need to be called Luton Airport Express?

If it didn't exist, what service would there be from Corby or Wellingborough? What service would run between Bedford and Kettering?


You can't get trains from Kettering to Derby or Sheffield any more, save one or two per day at unpopular hours. You have to change twice from Bedford to make these journeys.

Yes. Luton Airport used to be the second easiest airport to reach from Sheffield by rail, and it has a more resilient rail service than the one offered to Manchester Airport, but now it's barely even worth considering.

 

[cactustwirly]

Which signage are you referring to?

The St Pancras departure boards split by operator are a little cumbersome, but aren’t intentionally misleading in the way the ones at Victoria are.



Off topic to discuss other than as a comparison to GATEX - I’d say EMR is at least offering a substantially quicker journey time than the nearest equivalent, whereas the same can’t honestly be said for GATEX, as noted above. It’s also very well used to and from the airport, which is likely to see significant growth over the next few years.

How much faster are they actually, compared to the Bedford Thameslink services, which are 1st stop St Albans

 

[43066]

Is the airport express branding, an attempt to justify those prices?

I don’t think so? AIUI they date back to the old network south east boundary which stopped at Bedford on the MML but went further north on the WCML. That’s why Northampton - London is cheaper than Wellingborough - London despite being a broadly equivalent distance.

The “express” branding would likely relate to the London - airport market for most people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the airport express branding, an attempt to justify those prices?

Nothing to do with them, it's just a marketing ploy. Those high fares are a consequence of BR's decisions plus those made at privatisation to make the Anytimes and seasons regulated on South East commuter services but the Off Peaks (Savers) on InterCity. Don't doubt for a moment that had South East Anytimes not been regulated these would be much higher in line with the outrageous InterCity ones.

This being the case, I don't see why anyone would oppose that marketing if it gets more journeys onto the railways.

 

[PGAT]

How much faster are they actually, compared to the Bedford Thameslink services, which are 1st stop St Albans

30 mins exactly on ThamesLink, 21 on EMR. Considering that's an actual difference in time, loads less intensely than the Bedford services and doesn't require a trek down to the crowded sub-surface platforms, I'd say it is justified. I will admit though that slapping an express logo on a train (whos primary purpose in this case is to act as a stopping service north of Luton) is very cheeky.

Also I'm not sure if this is an error, but a quick search shows that ThamesLink and EMR offer the same price?

 

[Starmill]

Also I'm not sure if this is an error, but a quick search shows that ThamesLink and EMR offer the same price?

They are the same price when you can't get an Advance ticket.

 

[43066]

How much faster are they actually, compared to the Bedford Thameslink services, which are 1st stop St Albans

Looks like 8 to 10 minutes quicker than the fastest GTRs (some of which stop at West Hampstead), so a useful difference. Admittedly, perhaps not something you’d pay a huge premium for, but of course you aren’t being asked to here.

The timings from the airport are fairly sensible so if you catch an EMR you almost catch up with the last quick GTR, and the next will leave the airport shortly after the express service.

 

[David Goddard]

Its the most appropriate service for those travelling to, from or via parts of Central London which are not served by Thameslink, and but it’s important that the operator does not get too hung up on it providing this function on a service which is there as the prime facility to places further North.

 

[HST43257]

Branding? Seems silly to those who have a knowledge of the service. To the Airport-goer? Perfect. Tells you exactly what the service is and the branding is perfect for the target market. If you don’t need to know and you’re going to Bedford/Wellingborough/Corby, you don’t need to look at it.

Service? Excellent. The second Nottingham service is made much faster, surely attracting more London people than Bedford could offer. More to the point, all the towns the 360 Corby-London service serve have a much more frequent and reliable train not only to London, but also the best connecting into Leicester, Nottingham, and eventually Derby and Sheffield.

 

[Mikw]

Yeah, it does as it means there's always cheaper advanced singles from Kettering to London, and loads of seats!