Driver route knowledge requirement

[Huntergreed]

I have a few questions about VTWC driver route knowledge requirements that I have been wondering for a while:

1) Do drivers need to know the WHOLE WCML (e.g London to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Birmingham, Chester, Shrewsbury, Manchester, Blackpool etc...)

2) Are drivers trained on both 390 and 221?

3) Do all drivers need to know all possible diversion routes, or are only some trained?

4) How long do drivers get to learn routes?

 

[HLE]

All questions can be answered with : it depends on the depot, its links within the depot, the type and length of the route and the frequency the diversionary routes are used.

 

[neilb62]

1) Do drivers need to know the WHOLE WCML (e.g London to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Birmingham, Chester, Shrewsbury, Manchester, Blackpool etc...)

Only the top-link at Preston sign Edinburgh/Glasgow to London via Trent and Birmingham. Scottish Drivers only go as far as Preston. London and Wolverhampton only go to Preston. Manchester and Liverpool go London and Holyhead depending on link. Wolves Drivers do the Shrewsbury. Preston No3 link do the Blackpool. Preston and some Euston Drivers go to Chester.

2) Are drivers trained on both 390 and 221?

Not always. The lower links at Manchester and the top 2 links at Euston are 390 only.

3) Do all drivers need to know all possible diversion routes, or are only some trained?

If you sign the route you sign the diversions as appropriate.

4) How long do drivers get to learn routes?

How long is a piece of string? There are route learning norms but a Driver fresh to a depot like Preston having to learn North and South could be up to 3 years before fully productive. Route Learning isn't all done at once, you may learn London for instance and work South for a while before learning North.

 

[Mulberry2016]

1) Do drivers need to know the WHOLE WCML (e.g London to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Birmingham, Chester, Shrewsbury, Manchester, Blackpool etc...)

Only the top-link at Preston sign Edinburgh/Glasgow to London via Trent and Birmingham. Scottish Drivers only go as far as Preston. London and Wolverhampton only go to Preston. Manchester and Liverpool go London and Holyhead depending on link. Wolves Drivers do the Shrewsbury. Preston No3 link do the Blackpool. Preston and some Euston Drivers go to Chester.

2) Are drivers trained on both 390 and 221?

Not always. The lower links at Manchester and the top 2 links at Euston are 390 only.

3) Do all drivers need to know all possible diversion routes, or are only some trained?

If you sign the route you sign the diversions as appropriate.

4) How long do drivers get to learn routes?

How long is a piece of string? There are route learning norms but a Driver fresh to a depot like Preston having to learn North and South could be up to 3 years before fully productive. Route Learning isn't all done at once, you may learn London for instance and work South for a while before learning North.

Neil has hit the nail on the head. Top link at Preston are up there with the veteran Freight guys in terms of the best railway men in Britain as far as I'm concerned

 

[neilb62]

Neil has hit the nail on the head. Top link at Preston are up there with the veteran Freight guys in terms of the best railway men in Britain as far as I'm concerned

Why thank you sir! Neil (Pn No1 link Driver)

Only the Newcastle Lodge Link Drivers sign further than we do going to London, Inverness and Aberdeen. Not sure they have the diversionary knowledge we do though or the 'two ways to London apart from the Hartford loop.

 

[83G/84D]

It must be an absolute nightmare when they remodel or re-signal somewhere and you have to learn it all again.

Stafford springs to mind!

Throw in ESR's, TSR's and short notice changes to calling patterns and you certainly have to be alert at all times. Credit where credit is due you do a good job.

The most unappreciated people (by the public) on the railway........ after signallers!?

 

[neilb62]

It must be an absolute nightmare when they remodel or re-signal somewhere and you have to learn it all again.

Stafford springs to mind!

Throw in ESR's, TSR's and short notice changes to calling patterns and you certainly have to be alert at all times. Credit where credit is due you do a good job.

The most unappreciated people (by the public) on the railway........ after signallers!?

We get good route briefings and notices, I've recently done the one for the Manchester (Ordsall Lane) remodelling. It keeps you on your toes right enough!

 

[Mulberry2016]

Why thank you sir! Neil (Pn No1 link Driver)

Only the Newcastle Lodge Link Drivers sign further than we do going to London, Inverness and Aberdeen. Not sure they have the diversionary knowledge we do though or the 'two ways to London apart from the Hartford loop.

Yeah, East Coast is pretty much straight forward with what I know of it. Once I rack up the miles, I wouldn't mind stepping up to WCML stuff with virgin, but I haven't the experience as of yet. I do know a couple of your collegues,and they are inspirational people to say the least, who helped me a great deal during my training days a few years back.
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We get good route briefings and notices, I've recently done the one for the Manchester (Ordsall Lane) remodelling. It keeps you on your toes right enough!

So you would sign Chat Moss as a diversion then, Neil? Do you sign up to Stockport that way and beyond or just up to Piccadilly?

 

[neilb62]

Yeah, East Coast is pretty much straight forward with what I know of it. Once I rack up the miles, I wouldn't mind stepping up to WCML stuff with virgin, but I haven't the experience as of yet. I do know a couple of your collegues,and they are inspirational people to say the least, who helped me a great deal during my training days a few years back.
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So you would sign Chat Moss as a diversion then, Neil? Do you sign up to Stockport that way and beyond or just up to Piccadilly?

We sign across Chat Moss to Picc and from there to Crewe via Stockport and Styal, (2+3 Link go onto Long****e too) from Crewe we go direct to Colwich (obviously!) and via Stoke and Stone to Norton Bridge and Colwich, we no longer sign via Macclesfield although we used to. Other diversions are Bushbury and Wolves Station to Stechford via Bescot and Aston, Aston to New St and via Soho. In Scotland we do Law Jn to Uddingston via Bellshill and Holytown, the single line from Wishaw to Shieldmuir and past Motherwell Loco to Bellshill and Holytown. Chester is a Diversion for us from both Crewe and Warrington, a few of us at Pn (me included) still sign to Carlisle via Blackburn and Hellifield too! Northampton is just treated as the Slow Lines, if they pull off that way we just go.

 

[Huntergreed]

We sign across Chat Moss to Picc and from there to Crewe via Stockport and Styal, (2+3 Link go onto Long****e too) from Crewe we go direct to Colwich (obviously!) and via Stoke and Stone to Norton Bridge and Colwich, we no longer sign via Macclesfield although we used to. Other diversions are Bushbury and Wolves Station to Stechford via Bescot and Aston, Aston to New St and via Soho. In Scotland we do Law Jn to Uddingston via Bellshill and Holytown, the single line from Wishaw to Shieldmuir and past Motherwell Loco to Bellshill and Holytown. Chester is a Diversion for us from both Crewe and Warrington, a few of us at Pn (me included) still sign to Carlisle via Blackburn and Hellifield too! Northampton is just treated as the Slow Lines, if they pull off that way we just go.

Can I ask, what happens if you accidentally get sent along an incorrect route (either that you do OR don't sign, or does this never happen?

 

[Belgarion]

Can I ask, what happens if you accidentally get sent along an incorrect route (either that you do OR don't sign, or does this never happen?

That's the whole point of route knowledge, you know not to take a wrong route if it's given by the signaler. If you do make that mistake then it's a whole world of trouble

 

[neilb62]

Can I ask, what happens if you accidentally get sent along an incorrect route (either that you do OR don't sign, or does this never happen?

It shouldn't, it's down to the Driver to audit the route given and if incorrect stop. That said it does and has happened as we are all only human. Our most recent was a guy taking the Coventry line at Rugby when he should have gone down the Trent, the passengers then has a trip via Bescot to get North. In this case the blame is usually split 50/50 between Driver and Signaller.

 

[Mulberry2016]

We sign across Chat Moss to Picc and from there to Crewe via Stockport and Styal, (2+3 Link go onto Long****e too) from Crewe we go direct to Colwich (obviously!) and via Stoke and Stone to Norton Bridge and Colwich, we no longer sign via Macclesfield although we used to. Other diversions are Bushbury and Wolves Station to Stechford via Bescot and Aston, Aston to New St and via Soho. In Scotland we do Law Jn to Uddingston via Bellshill and Holytown, the single line from Wishaw to Shieldmuir and past Motherwell Loco to Bellshill and Holytown. Chester is a Diversion for us from both Crewe and Warrington, a few of us at Pn (me included) still sign to Carlisle via Blackburn and Hellifield too! Northampton is just treated as the Slow Lines, if they pull off that way we just go.

How on earth do you still sign Hellifield and Blackburn? Is it just a DVD refresh or do you actually ride up it on one of Northern's services every 6 months with the Blackpool men? Cheers, Neil

 

[neilb62]

How on earth do you still sign Hellifield and Blackburn? Is it just a DVD refresh or do you actually ride up it on one of Northern's services every 6 months with the Blackpool men? Cheers, Neil

We have a route reviewing loco every year (each Driver gets two trips) Sadly this looks to have come to an end with the recent S&C closure so we'll loose the route knowledge over there.

 

[Mulberry2016]

We have a route reviewing loco every year (each Driver gets two trips) Sadly this looks to have come to an end with the recent S&C closure so we'll loose the route knowledge over there.

Haaaa, I remember Rob telling me about that. It's a class 50 isn't it?? Once the S&C is back open, It would make sense to have that back as a diversion but I don't surpose there are enough voyager sets to justify it.

 

[neilb62]

Haaaa, I remember Rob telling me about that. It's a class 50 isn't it?? Once the S&C is back open, It would make sense to have that back as a diversion but I don't surpose there are enough voyager sets to justify it.

It's a 57. And no, it seems there is no plan for us to go over there again.

 

[WCMLaddict]

That will give a reason to Network Rail to cut the maintenance on the Clitheroe line.
And slap 30mph speed restriction for the whole length

 

[Mulberry2016]

It's a 57. And no, it seems there is no plan for us to go over there again.

Unless they electrify it, of course

 

[Simonrammy]

It's a 57. And no, it seems there is no plan for us to go over there again.

Id be booking on if it was a class 50!