DRS Mk2 Push Pull

[GM228]

I'm curious as to what system the DRS Mk2s use for the DBSO? Have they been modified to use the DRS type multiple working system or another type or both?

GM228

 

[colchesterken]

On the same subject does anyone know why Abellio seem to have given up on cl 37 s and DBSO s on the Norwich local routes, it seems a bit of a waste using 2 x 37 s for 2 coaches

 

[GM228]

On the same subject does anyone know why Abellio seem to have given up on cl 37 s and DBSO s on the Norwich local routes, it seems a bit of a waste using 2 x 37 s for 2 coaches

Also the requirement for a driver in each loco! Perhaps they will get a DBSO in the future when more become available?

GM228

 

[Smudger105e]

I'm curious as to what system the DRS Mk2s use for the DBSO? Have they been modified to use the DRS type multiple working system or another type or both?

GM228

The Mk2s have had through 27 way jumpers fitted, and connect to the 37 using the standard blue star jumpers and recepts. There is an additional jumper from the DBSO for the CDL and PA and the RCH jumpers for lighting control.

 

[GM228]

The Mk2s have had through 27 way jumpers fitted, and connect to the 37 using the standard blue star jumpers and recepts. There is an additional jumper from the DBSO for the CDL and PA and the RCH jumpers for lighting control.

Why did DRS go to the trouble of fitting their own type of MW system to the 20s and 37s when they already had the blue-star? I thought blue-star was disconnected with the DRS system in place, but obviously not!

GM228

 

[Smudger105e]

Why did DRS go to the trouble of fitting their own type of MW system to the 20s and 37s when they already had the blue-star? I thought blue-star was disconnected with the DRS system in place, but obviously not!

GM228

It is connected to the train lines in the nose end. Some locos have both (e.g. 37401, 716) and some have no blue star jumpers, just the DRS type 29 receptacles (eg 37069).

 

[GM228]

It is connected to the train lines in the nose end. Some locos have both (e.g. 37401, 716) and some have no blue star jumpers, just the DRS type 29 receptacles (eg 37069).

Thanks for that, so do the 20s still retain blue star or just the DRS type?

And here's one for thought, can you multiple 3xlocos as follows-1xblue star only/1xboth/1xDRS type? In otherwords the 1st loco talks to the second via Blue star and the second talks to the third via DRS type?

GM228

Edit: having looked into this I'm told the DRS type is identical to Blue-Star and just wired up through a different socket and a DRS only type can apparently be used on normal Blue-Star systems using an adaptor cable?

 

[grumblingalong]

On the same subject does anyone know why Abellio seem to have given up on cl 37 s and DBSO s on the Norwich local routes, it seems a bit of a waste using 2 x 37 s for 2 coaches

By my understanding Northern have used them all on their 37 sets, none left for Anglia.

 

[Smudger105e]

Edit: having looked into this I'm told the DRS type is identical to Blue-Star and just wired up through a different socket and a DRS only type can apparently be used on normal Blue-Star systems using an adaptor cable?

That is correct, 1 wire on the blue star is connected to 1 wire on the DRS type 29, 2 to 2 etc. The only ones that are not connected in this order is some of the 7 and 8 wires, depending whether it is a jumper or a recept and whether it is at No1 end or No2 end of the loco.

By my understanding Northern have used them all on their 37 sets, none left for Anglia.

There are only 2 there at the moment (9705 and 9707) although a further three are undergoing refurb and safety system upgrade at RVEL currently.

 

[GM228]

That is correct, 1 wire on the blue star is connected to 1 wire on the DRS type 29, 2 to 2 etc. The only ones that are not connected in this order is some of the 7 and 8 wires, depending whether it is a jumper or a recept and whether it is at No1 end or No2 end of the loco.




There are only 2 there at the moment (9705 and 9707) although a further three are undergoing refurb and safety system upgrade at RVEL currently.

So 3xDBSOs to NR (1 spare) and 1 DBSO to GA and another one to play around with could be realistic? Have DRS anymore in store?

GM228

 

[Smudger105e]

So 3xDBSOs to NR (1 spare) and 1 DBSO to GA and another one to play around with could be realistic? Have DRS anymore in store?

GM228

Sorry, you misunderstand what I thought I had said.

The three that are being worked on at RVEL are all DRS DBSOs so that will eventually mean 5 in service with DRS. The NR ones are additional to these ones. I can't remember all the DRS numbers, but one is 9710, with 9707 and 9705 at Carlisle.

 

[Observer]

Aren't there DVTs in storage? How about getting them restored to service, rewired to work with what would be on the other side and put to use?

 

[GM228]

Sorry, you misunderstand what I thought I had said.

The three that are being worked on at RVEL are all DRS DBSOs so that will eventually mean 5 in service with DRS. The NR ones are additional to these ones. I can't remember all the DRS numbers, but one is 9710, with 9707 and 9705 at Carlisle.

I know exactly what you meant!

Yes 5 DRS DBSOs, 3 for the NR operation as in Northern Rail for the Cumbrian jobs! I take it you think I'm referring to Network Rail?

In other words I'd guess DRS could allocate 3 to NR (1 rolling spare), one to GA and another spare as required!
GM228

 

[theblackwatch]

Sorry, you misunderstand what I thought I had said.

The three that are being worked on at RVEL are all DRS DBSOs so that will eventually mean 5 in service with DRS. The NR ones are additional to these ones. I can't remember all the DRS numbers, but one is 9710, with 9707 and 9705 at Carlisle.

DRS actually have 6 DBSOs now, 9704/05/07/09/10/13. As I understand it, the next one out should be 9713 for use in Scotland.

 

[GM228]

DRS actually have 6 DBSOs now, 9704/05/07/09/10/13. As I understand it, the next one out should be 9713 for use in Scotland.

If that's the case then the DBSO (and coaches) will need more mods to talk to the 68s won't they?

I thought the Scotrail sets weren't getting them which is why they have matching brake coaches unlike the Cumbrian sets?

GM228

 

[Smudger105e]

I know exactly what you meant!

Yes 5 DRS DBSOs, 3 for the NR operation as in Northern Rail for the Cumbrian jobs! I take it you think I'm referring to Network Rail?

In other words I'd guess DRS could allocate 3 to NR (1 rolling spare), one to GA and another spare as required!
GM228

Yes indeed, I read what you wrote, thought you meant NR being Network Rail, made some assumptions, which proved to be wrong, and am I drivelling on enough?

 

[dk1]

AGA are hoping to get a DBSO in the formation at some point. In the meantime they are being compensated in the deal by DRS & Northern are paying the fuel costs on the second loco. No second driver currently required but this will not be the case when either loco is substituted.

 

[GM228]

AGA are hoping to get a DBSO in the formation at some point. In the meantime they are being compensated in the deal by DRS & Northern are paying the fuel costs on the second loco. No second driver currently required but this will not be the case when either loco is substituted.

AGA required a driver in each 47, is this not the case with the 37s?

GM228

 

[dk1]

AGA required a driver in each 47, is this not the case with the 37s?

GM228

No, they are through wired hence they both power up. This enables the leading driver to know if fire alarms sound in the rear loco.

 

[Smudger105e]

AGA required a driver in each 47, is this not the case with the 37s?

GM228

Could be because 47s have no jumpers. They are not blue star.

 

[GM228]

No, they are through wired hence they both power up. This enables the leading driver to know if fire alarms sound in the rear loco.

I thought that may be the case, super power for such a small load.

Are all the DRS Mk2s fitted with through pipes?

Could be because 47s have no jumpers. They are not blue star.

Yes was due to the possability of a fire or other problem in the rear loco and not knowing about it but didn't know they actually connected both 37s, saves on the extra driver but increases fuel usage I'd imagine although in the winter season would reduce slipping when starting.

I'm curious how DRSs green circle 47s work with Carolines blue star MW? Either some sort of adaptors or Caroline actually has more than one type of system fitted?

GM228

 

[alexl92]

Aren't there DVTs in storage? How about getting them restored to service, rewired to work with what would be on the other side and put to use?

If I understand correctly, DVTs can't work with MK2s or with Cl 37s because the DVT uses the wiring system on the Mk3s which uses a TDM to control the other loco... so I think it'd be a fairly big job to make that one work.

I'm curious how DRSs green circle 47s work with Carolines blue star MW? Either some sort of adaptors or Caroline actually has more than one type of system fitted?

GM228

Has Caroline worked with a 47? Every photo I've seen has been 37-powered.

 

[matt]

Has Caroline worked with a 47? Every photo I've seen has been 37-powered.

The most recent runs have been with a class 47.

 

[cj_1985]

If I understand correctly, DVTs can't work with MK2s or with Cl 37s because the DVT uses the wiring system on the Mk3s which uses a TDM to control the other loco... so I think it'd be a fairly big job to make that one work.



Has Caroline worked with a 47? Every photo I've seen has been 37-powered.

I could swear that i've seen a picture of a 47 with the observation saloon.... certainly within the last 7 months

 

[Strathclyder]

I could swear that i've seen a picture of a 47 with the observation saloon.... certainly within the last 7 months

This is the earliest dated image of a DRS 47 running with Caroline that I've found from a quick search (dated 17th September 2014).

 

[GM228]

If I understand correctly, DVTs can't work with MK2s or with Cl 37s because the DVT uses the wiring system on the Mk3s which uses a TDM to control the other loco... so I think it'd be a fairly big job to make that one work.



Has Caroline worked with a 47? Every photo I've seen has been 37-powered.

Yes the DVTs use the TDM system, the Chiltern and AW ones are modified for AAR AFAIK.

I could swear that i've seen a picture of a 47 with the observation saloon.... certainly within the last 7 months

I saw a photo somewhere in 2013 also, has become more common since the 47s were displaced from AGA. Must be by use of some sort of adaptors or Caroline is so equipped?

GM228

 

[barrowjack]

AGA are hoping to get a DBSO in the formation at some point. In the meantime they are being compensated in the deal by DRS & Northern are paying the fuel costs on the second loco. No second driver currently required but this will not be the case when either loco is substituted.

The Northern services aren't using a DBSO either yet, though 9705 is now at Kingmoor. They are currently being worked by a 37/4 on one end and either /0 or a /6 on the other.

 

[dk1]

DBSOs & DVTs both work on the same TDM principle & are interchangable with most standard MK2/MK3 LHCS vehicles. Exceptions are the ex-GatEx MK2s & HST MK3s.

 

[Smudger105e]

DBSOs & DVTs both work on the same TDM principle & are interchangable with most standard MK2/MK3 LHCS vehicles. Exceptions are the ex-GatEx MK2s & HST MK3s.

DRS DBSOs do not use TDM, they use 27 way jumpers and control air for engine speed.

 

[GM228]

DBSOs & DVTs both work on the same TDM principle & are interchangable with most standard MK2/MK3 LHCS vehicles. Exceptions are the ex-GatEx MK2s & HST MK3s.

When the DBSOs first were introduced they workes using TDM with modified 47s for Scotrail and used the same system until retirement from Anglia, but the DRS DBSOs have blue-star mods and the Chiltern DVTs (also the Arriva DVTs???) have AAR mods, do these mods get rid of the TDM MW or supplement it?



GM228