Dutch flyer - some facts

[Greenback]

Came back on the daytime sailing, rough seas making me feel queasy, but decided on the "kill or cure" method of the all-you-can-eat-for-17-guilders* buffet. Just nibbling bits of bland food and sipping coffee with a view of the horizon seemed to work.

Ah, the magnificent old buffet restaurant! I have fond memories of a vist there in 1986 when I seem to recall it was marketed as 'The Round the World Buffet' or soemthing like that.

All hail to Eurostar from those of us who don't get on with lumpy seas, but this thread has persuaded me that I should try the overnight cabins next year.

I was very impressed with the cabins earlier this year. As it was my first trip on the route in 20 years, I could hardly believe how different things are from the 'old days'!

I can't say I found much difference between North Sea, Brittany & Harwich-Hoek cabins althouh I think the ships on the latter are a bit better (and the foot passenger checkin easier)

I thought the Stena cabins were better than Brittany Ferries Pont Aven. But then I have always preferred the Bretagne to Pont Aven anyway.

Overall, my favourite ferry to the continent would be DFDS, but it's close call as there isn't much between them all. I found the worst to be P&O.

 

[williamn]

Worth noting that after the wake up call on the way to Hook of Holland you also get sales messages for breakfast 15mins later and for the shop 15 mins after that.

I'd say the fact there is no direct train to Amsterdam from the port is a major disincentive to use the boat again for me.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'd say the fact there is no direct train to Amsterdam from the port is a major disincentive to use the boat again for me.

it's no big deal, there's a half hourly service from Hoek van Holland to Rotterdam, changing at Schiedam for Amsterdam

 

[williamn]

I've done it - it was annoying, having to cart all your bags under the subway to the other platform, while feeling very tired.

Was a fun and interesting way to travel to Amsterdam once, but I wouldn't repeat it. Train back took 4hrs 40 and didn't cost a lot more.

 

[Greenback]

I'd say the fact there is no direct train to Amsterdam from the port is a major disincentive to use the boat again for me.

The loadings simply aren't there to justify a direct Amsterdam service any more.

it's no big deal, there's a half hourly service from Hoek van Holland to Rotterdam, changing at Schiedam for Amsterdam

I didn't find it a big deal, I must admit.

I've done it - it was annoying, having to cart all your bags under the subway to the other platform, while feeling very tired.

Was a fun and interesting way to travel to Amsterdam once, but I wouldn't repeat it. Train back took 4hrs 40 and didn't cost a lot more.

It was a simple cross platform connection, though we were coming from Amsterdam rather than travelling to there. I can see that dragging bags through a subway is less than appealing.

Eurostar is faster, but I do find the ferry more interesting and relaxing.

 

[stut]

It was a simple cross platform connection, though we were coming from Amsterdam rather than travelling to there. I can see that dragging bags through a subway is less than appealing.

It's cross-platform at Schiedam Centrum if you're headed from Amsterdam to HvH, but you need the tunnel if you're going the other way.

The alternative is to use the Fyra to Rotterdam CS, where you can use escalators/lifts to the bay platforms where the HvH shuttle departs from. You have to pay a supplement, but on the plus side, there's more facilities at Rotterdam CS (for example, if breakfast on the boat was too early for you) than there is at Schiedam C.

I do like the ferry - I find it very cost- and time-effective (particularly when you factor in the cost of hotels), but most of all, allows me to take my bike with me.

A warning, though - unless you have a folding bike, they are barred on all trains in the Netherlands between 06:30 and 09:00 and 16:30 and 18:00 - no 'direction of travel' exceptions. So if you arrive with a bike, you're riding it. On the plus side, the coastal cycle path through Monster to Scheveningen is great.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Can I add a question here about onward travel from a Dutch Flyer, Hoek van Holland into Germany (Cologne area and onwards south) - I've got two alternative routes from Rotterdam, one via Venlo to change to a German local train there, and the other via Utrecht to connect into the DB Intercity service from Amsterdam.
Anyone have any recommendations either way? Comfort/scenery/eating facilities/rail interest about the same or is one route substantially better?
Thanks in advance.

 

[30907]

Depends exactly what you want to do!

The NS trains Rotterdam-Utrecht and R-Venlo are of similar comfort.

There's nothing in it for scenery, and not much to choose between railwise unless you want to visit the Dutch Railway Museum at Utrecht - there's rather more freight at Emmerich than Venlo, but the ICE doesn't stop at Emmerich so it's only what you see from the window.

An ICE from Utrecht to Germany wins on comfort over the Eurobahn emu and DB regional stock - and it has a Bordbistro. Against that, if you can make the earliest train (08.10) at Hoek IIRC you can be in Germany rather earlier.

Cost-wise, for a destination in NRW only it's better via Venlo (buy a NRW SchoenerTagTicket at the DB machine there) as the Dutchflyer is valid that far.

Further afield in Germany, a ES-Netherlands on the late morning train from Utrecht, with up to 2x48hr stopover, is probably most cost-effective.

Alternatively you can book a Sparpreis from Kaldenkirchen (or an ES-Austria to a notional destination if you want the stopovers, or if it's cheaper! In that case, a VRR-Zusatzticket for a couple of Euros is needed from the said machine in Venlo...otherwise you risk a Penalty Fare

 

[306024]

30907 has summed it up perfectly. I prefer the route via Utrecht these days, although on the last two occasions I've travelled engineering work has seen the ICE diverted via Venlo, with some keen photographers out to record it.

Now if you had ex class 77 1500 electric locomotives as an option..........

 

[eastwestdivide]

Thanks to the two "numbers" who answered. Might try out one way and back the other. I'll be on an Interrail ticket in any case (yes, I've done my homework on fares), so I'll have flexibility on the day.
Where's the nearest currywurst outlet!

 

[gordonthemoron]

personally, I'd only eat currywurst in Berlin having had dreadful ones in Munich

 

[gunn13]

I'm going to be using the ferry from Hoek-Harwich at the end of February, travelling as a foot passenger on the day service.
I will be travelling with a dog and a cat in the on-board kennels and I was wondering if anyone who has made the Hoek to Harwich journey with animals could let me know what to expect at passport/customs in terms of delays? Should I plan on not being able to connect with the 20:45 to Liverpool st?
Thanks.

 

[cjp]

FWIW
I finally managed to book a single Dutch Flyer ticket from Amsterdam to Liverpool Street.

For those that do not know the UK website http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry-to-holland/rail-and-sail will not sell you a single Dutch Flyer starting in Holland. Nor can you do it on the telephone to them - all they will offer is ferry ticket.
Instead you are directed to their Dutch site www.stenaline.nl/ferry/londen/where buying such tickets are possible except for the catch

Q: How do I book the Dutchflyer starting in the Netherlands?
A: Simply visit our Dutch site at www.stenaline.nl/ferry/londen/ and go through the booking process. Unfortunately if you switch the site to ‘English’ you will only be able to book the Dutchflyer from the Hook of Holland (we’re working on this!) so please leave it in Dutch.

Struggle with the Dutch as you will but one cannot succeed if one lives outwith the Netherlands

So then phone Stenna in the Netherlands 0031174315811 where they speak excellent English and will help you with everything until, just like their web site, they ask at the end, "have you an address in Holland to which we can post the tickets?" A requirement apparently imposed by NS Netherlands railways
I feared this would be the case from this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95071&highlight=Dutch+Flyer

So I phoned up. played dumb (easy) took a flyer (groan) and pity was taken on me by one person in the office and lo tickets are coming through the post to the UK.

If you get stuck and need such a ticket PM me for the name to ask for

 

[Greenback]

I booked online using the Dutch website in 2012 by following the excellent instruction on the excellent Seat61 website. Is this no longer possible? At that time I was given my ferry tickets and refunded my train tickets at the check in desk before boarding the night ferry to Harwich.

 

[30907]

sadly it has changed. seat61 says so '

 

[TCDD]

It seems to me that the NS don't much like having visitors. Firstly, their ticket machines don't accept anything other than coins or cards with Maestro. Secondly, the ticket offices charge a cheeky 50 cents if you go there instead (and still only take Maestro cards). Thirdly, their website only takes Maestro cards. Fourthly, they are allegedly (according to 'Today's Railways') removing most of the departure posters on the stations (yes, you can get the info on your smartphone - but 'roaming' can be expensive). And now I see, they 'don't like' their rail tickets being sent abroad. The Netherlands Railways is, in so very many ways, a fine modern system, but it seems to be one they really don't want anyone else to use!

 

[306024]

It seems to me that the NS don't much like having visitors......

They certainly don't help Stena Line in the slightest.

 

[Greenback]

It is disappointing that the Dutch system seems to be hell bent on making it is as difficult as possible for visitors in all respects. Removing departure posters seems particularly daft.

I think I shall be avoiding rail travel in the Netherlands until such time as thing simprove, except if I am using DB through tickets!

 

[cjp]

It seems to me that the NS don't much like having visitors. And now I see, they 'don't like' their rail tickets being sent abroad. The Netherlands Railways is, in so very many ways, a fine modern system, but it seems to be one they really don't want anyone else to use!

Hot (bad) news today.
I tried to buy a personalised OV-chipkaart which need a picture and is not available on demand
but the answer was

Dear Sir/Madam,


You asked us the following question on 31-01-2014.

The answer is:

First of all, I want to thank you for your interest in the OV-chipkaart.

For now, it's not possible to deliver cards in other countries than Germany, Belgium, Luxenbourg and The Netherlands. These countries connect to the Dutch Railway system, thus use it more often than citizens of other countries. The OV-chipkaart is, after all, a Dutch product and is can only be used in The Netherlands. Perhaps in the future it might be possible to send an OV-chipkaart the Great Britain. I want to thank you for this suggestion.


Kind regards,

Roeliene Bos
Customer service department OV-chipkaart

Are TfL like that with Oyster cards?

Perhaps readers of this thread might ask them the same question over the next couple of weeks??

https://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/klantenservice/contact/contactformulier/

 

[gordonthemoron]

is this not in breach of EU directives? If not, why not?

 

[cjp]

An update sent to me today by the Man In Seat 61

They recently changed the booking arrangements on their Dutch website,
and the 'Any Dutch station' option is no longer disabled when you switch
it to English.

Their Dutch site now allows you to book from ADS to Any Greater Anglia
station online wherever you live, and I assume they now happily post the
tickets - but I wasn't sure, as it didn't say how tickets were delivered
when I made a test booking as far as payment. But I'm guessing they
email the ferry ticket, and they post the Dutch train tickets.

I updated the instructions for booking starting in the Netherlands
yesterday.

Of course neither of us have put money into actually buying but there is hope
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

is this not in breach of EU directives? If not, why not?

Hmm not sure so I have asked the Dutch Embassy

Dear Sirs,

Why under European Law is your railway system allowed to discriminate against some EU residents on the basis of their country of residence?

 

[gordonthemoron]

actually will UK ticket websites mail tickets abroad?

 

[radamfi]

Dutch departure posters are different to what you have in most countries as they are organised by route, rather than all trains in one list. They aren't that useful unless you are only travelling on a direct train from that station. I can't remember the last time I looked at one in the UK - do they still exist? Mostly you will want to look at the electronic display as that will show any delays.

I can understand why NS don't accept Visa/Mastercard. In other countries, they accept them at no extra cost, but that means that you are effectively paying extra for your ticket as a result.

 

[Greenback]

It's good news if the Dutch website now allows booking in English. I hope it's confirmed soon that the tickets can be delivered in some way!

I've always found the departure posters useful. The removal is a poor decision.

I still think it is poor that NS don't accept Visa and Mastercard in all of the TVM's. It is certainly not in line with the rest of Europe, where I have even managed to buy tickets using a Mastercard on SNCF stations!

The Dutch rail network is very good in many ways. It's a shame that the non train side of the service is not quite up to the standards of other countries. I find it is the reverse in Belgium.

 

[stut]

is this not in breach of EU directives? If not, why not?

Not sure.

The Danish Rejsekort is also ridiculously hard to get hold of (in all its guises) - the excuse given is one of legislation against money laundering. How on earth you use Rejsekorter for money laundering is beyond me.

To get an anonymous (undiscounted, paid-for) one, you have to go in person to an address way out in suburban Copenhagen.

To get a personalised one, you have to fill in two forms, one of them only in Danish, and the other (foreigners' declaration) only available if you specifically ask for it by email from customer services (who usually take several weeks to respond). They will only mail the card to a Danish address, but will also load it up with Kr100, which they will then invoice to this same address (without telling you). The only ways to pay the invoice are by Danish bank transfer or... Going in person to an address way out in suburban Copenhagen.

It's quite comical. I do have a card now - if only out of sheer bloody-mindedness.

 

[Goatboy]

I almost booked this but in the end it seemed no more expensive, quicker and more convenient to simply use Eurostar and Thalys via Brussels.

 

[stut]

I almost booked this but in the end it seemed no more expensive, quicker and more convenient to simply use Eurostar and Thalys via Brussels.

The overnight service is very keenly priced compared to a hotel, though, if you need to be in NL in the morning. Particularly if there's two of you travelling.

For me, though, the main attraction is the ability to bring my bike with me, with minimum cost and hassle.

 

[Pete81E]

For the onward journey from arrival in Netherlands, are there any restrictions on break of journey to your final destination?

For example, if I wanted to go via Rotterdam and Eindhoven to Maastrict, I can get a timetable from the NS site but the limit is 20 min connections. Am I allowed to break at one or more stations (either where they require a change of train or not?)

In other words, as long as I am travelling 'away' from the ferry would my journey be allowed?

 

[NL Railways]

I don´t know how long you would be able to use the Dutchflyer tickets anyway, I think this will cease to exist within the next three years. The mainline railtrack from Hoek van Holland to Schiedam Centrum is going to be closed and rebuilt, and integrated within the Greater Rotterdam suburban metro line system.

NS will hand over this concession to local operator RET. They will run more services with regular intervals and there is however no direct rail link anymore to Rotterdam Centraal.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Quick bit of feedback on my experience with the overnight crossing in early June 2014:
Cabins very comfortable, even the cheapest inside cabin which I picked. For single occupancy, the upper bunk can fold up out of the way.
Only downsides:
a) the alarm call (the intro to "Don't Worry Be Happy") comes on at instant full volume - I've suggested to them that it would be gentler if they faded it up gradually, as it's a bit of a shock to the system being woken violently like that.
b) on the return journey, the extra vibrations from the engines as the ship docked in Harwich woke me up around 4 am.
I'd say only book the buffet breakfast if you think you'll be able to make the most of it early in the morning (6 am ish on the way back).
On the plus side the early actual arrival at Harwich around 4am means that the advertised arrival of 0630 is pretty reliable for onward connections.
Going out, the staff opened the doors in Hoek van Holland on the dot of 0745, and by using the stairs rather than waiting for the lift, I managed to march down the gangplank, was first through Customs and made the 0756 departure to Rotterdam, along with a few others who were quick on their feet. I wouldn't rely on making that connection though.
I used the Venlo route into Germany, comfy Dutch IC units, but very very flat landscape. Thought the train was going fairly fast somewhere S of Dordrecht I think, and then a Thalys overtook, flying past on the high speed line - I thought we'd stopped.
A few locos in the marshalling yards at Venlo itself, including a Swiss BLS Cargo one. Handy kiosk/cafe there (where some Americans were unsuccessfully trying to use non-chip credit cards to buy coffee). And a comfortable Eurobahn unit onwards into Germany - excellent aircon in some very warm temperatures.
So all in all not a bad alternative to the tunnel, but be prepared for some sleep deprivation overnight.