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Dutch OVKaart an intelligent beast

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HowardGWR

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My wife and I keep an 'anonieme ovkaart' anonymous public transport card, for transport in the Netherlands as we go there at least twice a year to visit family. The only snag is that if you want to use rail with it, you have to have at least €20 on it which is a sort of 'loan' to NS, which one only uses up every six months. The buses don't require this, as presumably the distances are shorter. You have to check out and check back in, whenever you change from rail to bus.

Recently we were returning to England via Schiphol and on the bus from Huizen to Bussum (actually Naarden-Bussum) we saw on the bus overhead display screen that the trains towards AMS and Schiphol were all cancelled.

Panic!

It emerged that there had been a 'one under' at Weesp, so no trains northwards on the Hilversum route.

Actually the fact that we had advance warning on the bus display was very good example of good integrated transport.

At the station I noticed a train that would take us south towards Utrecht and then we could change and go back on the fast Breukelen* route.

To make it short (see Google Earth if you are interested), we went first from N-B to Hilversum, because the train was Amersfoort bound. We then had to exit the barriers (thus checking out) and then back onto another platform (thus checking back in) and when we got the second train to Utrecht, we were pleased to see that we did not have to check out and then back in again there to get our train to Schiphol.

We then discovered that we were being asked to get a train to AMS and then change again(!) to Schiphol.

I was worried that with the transfer at Hilversum, that had demanded exiting the barrier, we would end up being charged much more.

But no, when we checked out at Schiphol, the fare was exactly the same as would have been the case from Naarden-Bussum to Schiphol direct.

As an aside, four trains !!! and with our cases lugged between! Still we got there and I might add only 30-45 minutes later than would have been the case direct.

I presume that the system knows when you check in and out, merely to change platforms. I presume it is time-checked?

*Breukelen is of course the original town, after which the suburb of New York is named.
 
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AlexNL

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I presume that the system knows when you check in and out, merely to change platforms. I presume it is time-checked?

It definitely is. There are some rules and constraints in place, which have to do with the way tarification is implementated.

On NS operated trains
NS uses the travelled distance to determine the price that you will pay for your journey. This results into 1 journey of 100 km in length being cheaper than 2 journeys of 50 km.

Passengers are allowed 35 minutes to make a transfer between two different trains without breaking the distance continuity, as long as both trains are operated by NS. As nearly all trains operated by NS* run in 30-minute intervals, this allows for plenty of time to make a connection.

A few rules apply in this case:
- The transfer only counts for transfers from NS onto NS
- The transfer rule no longer applies if you use the same OV-chipkaart to make a different journey in the mean time (e.g. use a bus for Utrecht - Houten or something like that), as the validators check against the last journey made

The reduction rate (from a subscription which gives 40% off during off-peak hours) that is applied to your journey has to remain the same throughout. If the reduction rate changes, the counter is reset. This is still being worked on.

* Except for services late at night

All other public transport
The transfer rules also apply to other forms of public transport, which use a tarification system which is different from NS. On all bus/tram/subway journeys you pay a "starting fee" (89 cents, fixed throughout the country) on top of which a price per kilometer is charged. This price is different for each region and can even be different depending on the mode of transportation.

When you make a transfer, e.g. from a bus onto a tram, within 35 minutes the starting fee is not re-applied. This even applies when you are changing operators.
 

HowardGWR

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Thanks for the replies, useful stuff. I had not noticed any reduction for travelling off-peak. Perhaps I always have done so and thought that was the standard fare. When are the peak hours and are they nationally operative?

Looks like I need to access the NS page about all this; I could be missing out on reductions!
 

HowardGWR

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To have the 40 % after 9 o'clock one must have a personal OV-chipkaart. It is mainly for persons from Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany. I am not so sure whether other countries can join in.

This is the starting point: https://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/apply-1/personal-ovchipkaart/apply-for-personal-ovchipkaart.htm

That's a shame. We are as adjacent as any of those - well via Vlissingen! :D

I may write to them and ask them to extend it. We make many trips and would soon earn back the €7.50 cost over 5 years.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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That's a shame. We are as adjacent as any of those - well via Vlissingen! :D

As I understand the web site, "foreigners" can get a personal OV card but have to fill in a paper form from a station (eg Schiphol), with photograph.
You have to give an NL address (eg hotel, it says on the site).
It doesn't say how long it takes for one to be issued.
The DE/BE/LU restriction is only for on-line purchases.
You then have to add an annual season ticket to get discounts (a bit like our Railcards). €54 for seniors (€29 special offer).
So no use for casual visitors, but good for anybody who travels more than once a year.
 

Groningen

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Remember the no discount times of 40 % are from 6.30 till 9 and 16 till 18.30 o'clock. However if you check in before 6.30 and/or 16; you get the full discount. Provided that you do not switch to another traincompany where you have to checkout with NS and checkin (say) with Arriva or other.
 

dutchflyer

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ANYOne can get the chipcard-but it cost 11 eur if applied for manually and many desks will not even take that-anymore. As it has your name+foto on, it takes 7-10 days to produce. They say it will be sent back in 14 days. You can apply online for 7,50 and OV-chipcard will send it only to NL-BE-LU-DE adresses. You can also pay via paypal if you do not have a Dutch bank.
You can get it for free IF and only at the same time you apply for a NS-railcard, but NS will only send it to Dutch adresses. NS insists, as a large former state-run burocratic entity eager to make it fully online, that one should have a Dutch bank, but EU-law states they have to acept ANY IBAN account in eur-some English banks offer this to their customers. In that case you have to fone them and pass on the account nr.-and most likely have to insist to the ignorant calldeskemploye this is fully acceptable. The offer of a free chipcard will not apply this way, sorry.
NOTE that any railcard here is a subscription that will last forever UNTILL you actively cancel it yourself- can be done after 1 year and then every month-you pay by the year but will get the remaining monthes back. ATOC cannot offer that.
For more info+questions-they will also react to english, on forum.ns.nl.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You then have to add an annual season ticket to get discounts (a bit like our Railcards). €54 for seniors (€29 special offer).
So no use for casual visitors, but good for anybody who travels more than once a year.

The normal price is 50 eur/yr for ANYOne.
Seniors from 60 can pay an extra 24,50 (=7x3,50) and then get 7 extra days of ''free'' travel, spaced out in 2 month periods + 1 for the whole year, off peak only. The word for this is ''keuzedagen=chosen days''. Anyone still calls it gratisreizen=free travel, as it was indeed free for seniors till about 6-7 years ago. The chipcard will automatically give seniors from 65 a 33% discount on trambusmetro only.
However, this total of 74 eur equals about 5-6 DAYtickets from the special offers that are more or less available all year, but one has to buy these at the right time at the right place and know about them-making them about impossible to get for the casual tourist.
Re OP-by BUS, but needing to change 2x, would likely have been quicker from Bussum to Airport that time-buses run at least ev 30 mins all day weekdays.
 

WestCoast

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The only snag is that if you want to use rail with it, you have to have at least €20 on it which is a sort of 'loan' to NS, which one only uses up every six months..

I also find this really inconvenient, I do a bit of travelling in the Netherlands about once a year and have ended up spending more than I used with the old paper tickets. It's a very smart integrated system yes, but as a casual traveller I find it very easy to spend a lot on the card without realising due to its convenience.

Did a bit of travelling recently in Belgium and although the ticketing is old fashioned and the integration is nowhere near as extensive as the Netherlands, the ability to do most off-peak rail journeys for 6 euros as a under 26 on a Go Pass is fantastic. Also, the ability to buy a ticket online with UK credit card with just a passport for ID, so much simpler in my opinion than NL or DE really for British travellers without ID cards. Found it more straightforward and transparent than the fancy Chipkaart system, although I'm sure regular travellers and commuters in the Netherlands find it excellent.
 
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Bletchleyite

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The next obvious stage for the Chipkaart would be to integrate with contactless (so no actual Chipkaart needed) - but the Dutch are not generally a "credit card" country, so I doubt this will happen any time soon.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Did a bit of travelling recently in Belgium and although the ticketing is old fashioned and the integration is nowhere near as extensive as the Netherlands, the ability to do most off-peak rail journeys for 6 euros as a under 26 on a Go Pass is fantastic. Also, the ability to buy a ticket online with UK credit card with just a passport for ID, so much simpler in my opinion than NL or DE really for British travellers without ID cards. Found it more straightforward and transparent than the fancy Chipkaart system, although I'm sure regular travellers and commuters in the Netherlands find it excellent.

The Senior e-ticket fare of €6 between any two Belgian stations is also fantastic.
I'm planning a trip Schiphol-Luxembourg later in the year, and I get a stupid through fare from the international web sites.
But on the same trains (not Thalys), an NS domestic ticket to Roosendaal, Senior NMBS ticket to Arlon, and a single on to Luxembourg is much cheaper.
While NMBS has cross-border Senior tickets to Roosendaal, Maastricht and Aachen, very oddly it doesn't have them to Luxembourg.
 

radamfi

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The next obvious stage for the Chipkaart would be to integrate with contactless (so no actual Chipkaart needed) - but the Dutch are not generally a "credit card" country, so I doubt this will happen any time soon.

They are a big *debit* card country though and shops have accepted debit card payments for small amounts for years. Contactless payment is available in the Netherlands just like it is in the UK.

This article from a few days ago says that NS and HTM (the municipal operator in the Den Haag area) is carrying out a test of contactless bank card payment at the end of this year:

http://www.rtlz.nl/tech/ov-chipkaart-vergeten-check-straks-met-je-betaalpas

De Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS) en de Haagse openbaar vervoerder HTM starten eind dit jaar een proef om reizigers met hun betaalpas in en uit te laten checken.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think contactless will save a lot of issues. UK bus operators have apparently already committed to investigating it. Even if just used to pay for a simple paper ticket it will save time and faff, and if ubiquitous enough to allow cashless buses will also improve driver safety.
 

HowardGWR

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The next obvious stage for the Chipkaart would be to integrate with contactless (so no actual Chipkaart needed) - but the Dutch are not generally a "credit card" country, so I doubt this will happen any time soon.
They are a 'debit card country' now. Some AH supermarket tills are 'pinpas' only. Can save queueing. Mind, this was in the Gooi where I saw those.:D

Edit: Sorry Radamfi, I missed your making of the same point.
 
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WestCoast

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Yes, debit card usage is high in the Netherlands. There are certain countries where you need to carry notes and coins. Germany is one where many shops won't even take UK-issued Visa or Mastercard debit cards, only "EC cards". Spain, Italy and the Czech Republic are also places you need cash.

In the Nordic countries they use cards for everything, even vending machines take cards.

Some stats on debit card usage: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2014/shared/img/pr140429.en_img001.jpg
 
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radamfi

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They are a 'debit card country' now. Some AH supermarket tills are 'pinpas' only. Can save queueing. Mind, this was in the Gooi where I saw those.:D

At smaller AH outlets at stations and airport they also have self service machines that only accept cards, including contactless.
 

HowardGWR

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He means that, within the same shop, some tills accept cash and some don't.

Not only that, but that is what I wrote! If I had wanted to write that some AH supermarkets would not accept cash, then I would have written that.:D
 

Groningen

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There's a AH To Go in Amsterdam which is self-scan, self-checkout pin-only.

Add to this the AH to Go at Utrecht Centraal; this is card only.
 

Alicatt

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In Belgium it is the debit card "Bancontact" for most shops, cash is only allowed up to 999euro, 1000 euro and above has to be done via a bank account. Also a lot is done via overschriving as they have a standard bank payment slip across all banks and businesses, it is very integrated here, in some ways more so than the UK.

I did notice more use of personal cheques in the Netherlands while in Belgium they are no longer used.

We just got an AH in the next town, Overpelt, it is quite close to the railway too ;)
 

anme

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I did notice more use of personal cheques in the Netherlands while in Belgium they are no longer used.

Can I ask when you saw cheques being used in the Netherlands? I have never seen a cheque used there, and when I asked about them I was told they were phased out many years ago.
 

Alicatt

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Can I ask when you saw cheques being used in the Netherlands? I have never seen a cheque used there, and when I asked about them I was told they were phased out many years ago.

By the woman in front of me at the check out at Jumbo in Luyksgestel but it would be 2 years ago, I'm sure I have seen them since, but I do definitely remember that one as it took so long for her to write it out. Jumbo there had separate card readers for Belgium and Holland, we used it a lot at one time as the BTW was much better there but now there is no real difference. Same as we did a lot of shopping in Valkenswaard but now hardly ever go there.
 

anme

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By the woman in front of me at the check out at Jumbo in Luyksgestel but it would be 2 years ago, I'm sure I have seen them since, but I do definitely remember that one as it took so long for her to write it out. Jumbo there had separate card readers for Belgium and Holland, we used it a lot at one time as the BTW was much better there but now there is no real difference. Same as we did a lot of shopping in Valkenswaard but now hardly ever go there.

Strange, I lived in the Netherlands for a while and I never came across cheques at all. My Dutch girlfriend was fascinated by my British cheque book. Was it really a cheque you saw being written? This link suggests they were phased out in the Netherlands in 2001 (section 2.2.4) - http://www.bis.org/cpmi/paysys/netherlandscomp.pdf .

With the recent large scale introduction of contactless payments, the Netherlands seems to be rapidly becoming a cashless society.
 

HowardGWR

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I left in 1992 (although I still have great contact, having a Dutch bank account). They used to have eurocheques, and you could fill in the currency, so you could use them, guaranteed throughout Europe up to about £100 and thus possession of them (read theft) was highly prized, especially by such as Columbian gangs. More ubiquitously, they also had these 'acceptgiros' that you could just pay a bill by signing them and then posting them back to the supplier. It was just like something out of the punched card time warp. I suspect that these are both a memory now.

Perhaps someone with knowledge could comment? Are they still about? I don't think so.
 

Alicatt

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I've been living part time in Belgium since 2007 when I bought a house here, my wife is Belgian and we live close to the Dutch border.
The woman had a book, like our cheque books, I was not scrutinising it closely but she was filling it in like you would fill in a cheque, my wife said at the time, you don't see those any longer in Belgium but they are still used in Holland.

I'm retired but my wife still has a few years to go to reach retirement and as part of her pay she gets "maaltijd cheques" or "dienst cheques" but they are on a card just like a debit card and you can use them to pay for food or meals in various stores and restaurants. The paper versions exist as well and are valued at around 10euro each.

maaltijd = meal
dienst = service
 
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