East Coast Class 90?

[DavidBusDriver]

It's the same with Airliner World magazine, really are some glaring errors in their captions especially, not just errors in who operates what, but spelling mistakes, half of a column missed out...

Just sending them an e-mail about the latest issue claiming BA are one of only two operators of RB211-524 engined 767's, lets think :

British Airways
China Eastern (though being withdrawn)
MIAT Mongolian (leased from whoever leased their one to China Eastern lol)
Qantas

Therefore = 4!

I wouldn't normally be pedantic, but I have had every issue since the very first one, and the standards really seemed to have dropped significantly recently!

 

[E&W Lucas]

I hate to day this, but Rail may have got one over all of us.

I've heard some very interesting Class 90 related mutterings over the last fee days. Nothing definite, no when, where or how, just quiet mutterings....

 

[Aictos]

90027 going EC silver in the Toton paintshop shortly according to murmurs on the Farrow tour yesterday.

I've asked my source who's aware of anything worth noting in the industry and yes while DB Schenker will be hiring out a Class 90 to East Coast in the very near future, it is NOT yet decided which one it will be.

It may be 90027 but it's not 100% decided yet on if that will be the loco that East Coast will be hiring in.

 

[captainbigun]

EC will be taking a 90, 91s are going through level 5. But it is through the lack of an alternative that they are taking this TRIAL move.

Rail contains a mixture of fact and fiction.

 

[Hydro]

Rail contains a mixture of fact and fiction.

Carbon and iron, surely? (ho ho ho).

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

I've asked my source who's aware of anything worth noting in the industry and yes while DB Schenker will be hiring out a Class 90 to East Coast in the very near future, it is NOT yet decided which one it will be.

It may be 90027 but it's not 100% decided yet on if that will be the loco that East Coast will be hiring in.

Are they definitely pulling one out of storage for EC then? If it's not 027, then there aren't many more it could be, as all bar 3 (027, 034 & 039) are stored in the WNXX pool, and 018 was stored in the WNTR pool not all that long ago.

 

[junglejames]

I must admit I'm getting fed up at the amount of errors in each issue though.. do they not employ proof readers?!

Like what?
Youve just hinted there are numerous errors in every issue.
The odd issue has some poor grammer in areas, and thats a bit poor, but thats all as far as i can see. No worse than any other magazine.

 

[theblackwatch]

I suspect it will be like previously, when 024 was painted in GNER colours but it did not preclude other members of the class appearing frequently. Captainbigun, do you know any dates when this trial is expected to take place please?

 

[captainbigun]

Not as yet, it's imminent, but there are a number of issues to be considered and resolved before it is a go.

 

[theblackwatch]

Not as yet, it's imminent, but there are a number of issues to be considered and resolved before it is a go.

Thanks - quite looking forward to the option of a 90 to London for a change rather than a 91, HST or 180.

 

[captainbigun]

It won't feature on very friendly diagrams! Expect it to appear off peak early/late where it can't cause any grief. There is concern that it won't fit in well with what is now a 125mph railway.

EDIT: Provisional diagram not as sheltered as first thought.

 

[ChrisCooper]

On the all stops work it shouldn't be too bad. I can't see it being slower than a HST+9, afterall they must struggle to get to and maintain 125mph on anything but level or downhill. 90s have very good acceleration, better than a 91 and much better than a HST.

 

[Aictos]

On the all stops work it shouldn't be too bad. I can't see it being slower than a HST+9, afterall they must struggle to get to and maintain 125mph on anything but level or downhill. 90s have very good acceleration, better than a 91 and much better than a HST.

I am aware GNER did at the time used the 90s on the Leeds services but times have changed and they would be far better used on the York and Newark services.

Leave the Leeds/Newcastle/Scottish services in the hands of the 91s and HSTs.

 

[captainbigun]

90s have very good acceleration, better than a 91 and much better than a HST.

Better than a 91 over some of the speed range, up to 68mph infact. 0-110 there isn't much in it.

What you have to remember is that this time around the traffic is massively more dense. There's EC, HT, GC all operating, in EC's case with a greater number of services than back in the 1990s. So having a 110mph train amongst a dense pattern of 125mph services is potentially a problem. If it runs late then it's going to delay services behind and that has the potential to cause knock delays for some time.

 

[DarloRich]

surely a 90 will go on the York/Newark stoppers

 

[captainbigun]

Nope, Leeds branch. Don't want them in the way on the Donny-York section. It's also the easiest way to ensure crewing.

 

[notadriver]

Better than a 91 over some of the speed range, up to 68mph infact. 0-110 there isn't much in it.

What you have to remember is that this time around the traffic is massively more dense. There's EC, HT, GC all operating, in EC's case with a greater number of services than back in the 1990s. So having a 110mph train amongst a dense pattern of 125mph services is potentially a problem. If it runs late then it's going to delay services behind and that has the potential to cause knock delays for some time.

Have also found 90s assuming they are hauling 9 + a DVT lacking in ability to maintain top speed on 1/200 gradients.

 

[MCR247]

September 5th starting date is what I've heard

 

[Barrett M95]

Nope, Leeds branch. Don't want them in the way on the Donny-York section. It's also the easiest way to ensure crewing.

That would make most sense. It was their old duty. Are you EC staff? Or involved with the re-introduction of the 90's?

I think the 373/2 option in the early 2000's was good for the reasons of acceleration AND crusing speed, however while SNCF's option on them is up for review, it is more likely they will stay there than return.

 

[DarloRich]

Nope, Leeds branch. Don't want them in the way on the Donny-York section. It's also the easiest way to ensure crewing.

oh ok - i just thought that wiuth the new timetbale the York terminator was more stop start so thier reduced performance could be masked and this would free up a 91 or HST for a more high speed run.

I will just have to change at Doncaster then.

BTW what stock would they run with? MKIII or MKIV?

 

[captainbigun]

There's no additional stock. The 90 will replace a 91 on a MK4 set.

 

[DarloRich]

There's no additional stock. The 90 will replace a 91 on a MK4 set.

ok - great. I didnt know they could run with MKiv stock. I missed out on the last ECML 90's as i was out if the scene at that time

 

[ainsworth74]

ok - great. I didnt know they could run with MKiv stock.

I'm fairly sure that Mk4s can work with just about any passenger locomotive as the TSOE has a bog standard coupling (the name escapes me) and the Mk4s have the same electrical power requirements as any other LHCS. Though of course they can only work in push-pull with locomotives that have TDM compatible with a Mk4 DVT.

 

[Stevenage91]

I have read an artical in the latest issue of RAIL, who have said, that because the class 90s top speed is maxed out at 110 mph, they may have to provide a new timetable as Network Rail will have provide new routing times. As of what I have understood they will simple place the DBS class 90 on the front of the East Cost Mk.4 stock and as mentioned earlier, they will run the Leeds and York services only (but could possibly change). Testing with the class 90s is due to start in a few weeks too make sure they are up to scratch and working well (even if they are slower than the class 91s).

Hope this is of help to anyone!

 

[brad465]

EC seem to be bringing hired stock from other areas so far for shorter journeys, ie London-Leeds, as I believe the East Midlands Trains HST hired only does short runs.

In this case it makes sense as a max speed of 110mph would result in longer journey times, as more stops means less time at top speed.

 

[MCR247]

The EMT is no longer hired, its with EC permanently

 

[Thetrainspod]

I generally think it's a good idea, but I think they should think about purchasing them so they own them and paint them into official liveries because all of the mix and match of liveries on east cost is giving a bad look because it makes it look like there is insufficient stock and they need to borrow

 

[NXEA!]

I think that East Coast should look at hiring a Freightliner 90 instead of a DBS one as comments on here and other forums seem to suggest that DBS don't maintain their's as well, which would make the 90 more prone to failure if this is the case. The last thing East Coast want is an ill-maintained 90 failing in service and denting East Coast's already less than satisfactory punctuality, Personally I'd suggest they go one step further and purchase one from DBS outright, as it could help ease pressure on the 91 fleet (27 diagrams currently, 28 when one has to cover for an unavailable HST under the wires), and in turn increase the 91's reliability/availability. DBS wanted to shift 12 90's last year anyway, so it would make sense.

 

[NightatLaira]

If they rejigged the whole west yorkshire timetable and made all the 90 hauled services an 'all shacks' to KX service - could the 90 keep pace with a 91 on the sane diagram on the basis of faster acceleration (and better stop-start capability) despite lower top speed?

 

[ChrisCooper]

I think that East Coast should look at hiring a Freightliner 90 instead of a DBS one as comments on here and other forums seem to suggest that DBS don't maintain their's as well, which would make the 90 more prone to failure if this is the case. The last thing East Coast want is an ill-maintained 90 failing in service and denting East Coast's already less than satisfactory punctuality, Personally I'd suggest they go one step further and purchase one from DBS outright, as it could help ease pressure on the 91 fleet (27 diagrams currently, 28 when one has to cover for an unavailable HST under the wires), and in turn increase the 91's reliability/availability. DBS wanted to shift 12 90's last year anyway, so it would make sense.

I don't think the Freightliner 90s have the UIC connectors for TDM which are needed for working with Mk4s. Mk4s don't use the RCH jumpers for TDM like the Mk3s and Mk2s do.