East Coast Trains - Is this still going ahead?

[AMR]

That's what they claim...

That trains gonna be packed, have you should see the London to Manchester "Cheap Train" at 20:00. (Its significant as its £0.95 a mile which is the most expensive within the UK)

 

[221129]

That trains gonna be packed, have you should see the London to Manchester "Cheap Train" at 20:00. (Its significant as its £0.95 a mile which is the most expensive within the UK)

Given that it seems that it will be reservation only I doubt it will be too bad.

 

[AMR]

Given that it seems that it will be reservation only I doubt it will be too bad.

Yeah I forgot about that, but getting a ticket would be difficult i assume but I don't know how busy Edinburgh is on the East Coast.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's what they claim...

That won't be "the fare", that'll be the cheapest fare, with it going up from there. If they join ORCATS that'll mean it maxes out at the interavailable Super Off Peak Single (or Anytime Single in the peak) but I suspect they'll be aiming a fair way below those.

 

[Huntergreed]

That won't be "the fare", that'll be the cheapest fare, with it going up from there. If they join ORCATS that'll mean it maxes out at the interavailable Super Off Peak Single (or Anytime Single in the peak) but I suspect they'll be aiming a fair way below those.

It does claim on the first group website that they will:

Offer tickets at an average fare of less than £25

(https://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/eastcoast.aspx)

The wording of this suggests fares may start considerably lower than £25, with £25 being the average.

 

[221129]

when govt operate all the services now.

Ermm they don't...

 

[Clarence Yard]

We’ve done the OA vs Franchised Services debate to death on other threads without having to restart it here all over again and with the same old ORCATS wibble as well.

For hopefully the last time I have to say this, ORCATS is an increasing irrelevance on today’s railway because of dedicated fares, which now add up to the vast majority of revenue (I’m talking of well over 80% here) taken on key individual intercity flows. Even through journeys are now rapidly going dedicated with increasing numbers of joint dedicated deals between individual TOCs, pushing ORCATS further into total irrelevance. I can see it being switched off before too long, which wouldn’t hurt the existing OA operators because of their very high dedicated to Inter Available revenue ratios.

I don’t believe ECTL will be accepting IA products either.

 

[yorkie]

Never mind that was a dumb idea that I made up.

Just a gentle reminder that we absolutely do welcome ideas, but we do ask that these are posted exclusively in our Speculative Ideas forum please.

Thanks

We’ve done the OA vs Franchised Services debate to death on other threads without having to restart it here all over again ...

Agreed!

If anyone wishes to discuss this further, there is a thread here:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...f-the-orcats-revenue-allocation-system.213276

 

[KJ83]

The trains are not built, the empty shells are at the factory at Newton Aycliffe, and have been for nearly a year, unsure if they have started to actually start assembling them, last I heard was that the shells were sat in factory untouched.

Then I guess the last 'you heard' was a while ago then

 

[Carlisle]

To answer your Question, I assume its still going to go ahead as the trains have already been built,

So had the Regional Eurostar trains

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Worst case scenario the trains can be easily retasked into Hull and TPE fleets, TPE can certainly do with more to run the “full” timetable as there aren’t enough units to cover. 80x modular design and construction makes them very easily adaptable to operators needs

Staff are still very much actively training, it has been made all the more difficult since Hull Trains went back in to Furlough and LNER will not even acknowledge them as train crew and won’t allow First staff on board their trains - history repeating itself as GNER/NXEC wouldn’t entertain GC staff either - so any front ending by trainee drivers is relying on TPE and GWR services.

 

[Energy]

Staff are still very much actively training, it has been made all the more difficult since Hull Trains went back in to Furlough and LNER will not even acknowledge them as train crew and won’t allow First staff on board their trains

Very disappointing given LNER is now DfT owned, if they are worried about losing market maybe they should improve their offering...

history repeating itself as GNER/NXEC wouldn’t entertain GC staff either - so any front ending by trainee drivers is relying on TPE and GWR services.

What was Virgin like, although we didn't have VTEC for too long

 

[gimmea50anyday]

As far as GC and HT staff were concerned relations massively improved once East Coast took over and this continued through to VTEC/LNER. EC staff I know in control acknowledge and value the co-operation between the three operators when it goes tits up!

In contrast I am aware of First East Coast staff being charged standard full fare tickets for being on LNER services even though they are staff in uniform and on duty

 

[221129]

I am aware of First East Coast staff being charged standard full fare tickets for being on LNER services even though they are staff in uniform and on duty

If they are travelling for duty purposes then they should have a duty pass. If they don't then it is First East Coast in the wrong.

 

[Halish Railway]

Worst case scenario the trains can be easily retasked into Hull and TPE fleets, TPE can certainly do with more to run the “full” timetable as there aren’t enough units to cover.

The TPE timetable worked well prior to COVID, it just wasn’t where they would have liked due to only 4/12 Nova 3s being in service per day.

And let’s not turn this into another discussion about canning the Nova 3s please!

 

[800001]

Then I guess the last 'you heard' was a while ago then

How are they progressing?

 

[Clarence Yard]

How are they progressing?

Slowly but steadily - COVID is the issue here and the need to do "safe working", which is lengthening tasks, both at Newton Aycliffe and elsewhere, where certain components are sourced.

A HT unit will be hired in to do the staff training.

 

[800001]

Slowly but steadily - COVID is the issue here and the need to do "safe working", which is lengthening tasks, both at Newton Aycliffe and elsewhere, where certain components are sourced.

A HT unit will be hired in to do the staff training.

Thanks for the reply, it's good that work is progressing, I can remember photographing the shells arriving by road, seems a lifetime ago.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The TPE timetable worked well prior to COVID, it just wasn’t where they would have liked due to only 4/12 Nova 3s being in service per day.

And let’s not turn this into another discussion about canning the Nova 3s please!

No one mentioned Nova 3. And my comments earlier certainly wasn’t referencing Mk5s in any way. the train order for 19 802s and 13 mk5s was based on 10 minute turnarounds which has been proven time and time again to be unworkable. As a result of timetable rejigging there is now one 802 and 1 mk5 set short of the plan. The gap supposedly being filled by two additional 6 car 185s hence the initial announcement of extra 185s being retained. CV19 has of course shafted all plans but that is a different story. What will happen in future we just don’t know Given the current circumstances. We can only speculate

If they are travelling for duty purposes then they should have a duty pass. If they don't then it is First East Coast in the wrong.

Why do we still have this issue of Traincrew charging traincrew regardless of operator? No doubt the same member of staff charging will expect them to help should the job go tits up for whatever reason...

 

[Wynd]

This service is intended to be one class isn't it? No 1st?

Its very appealing from a Northern perspective on timings to London.

 

[221129]

This service is intended to be one class isn't it? No 1st?

Correct.

 

[Bald Rick]

Its very appealing from a Northern perspective on timings to London.

In what way, out of interest?

 

[Halish Railway]

In what way, out of interest?

An arrival before 10:00 will be useful for those going down to London for work or for spending as much time as possible in London for a weekend break. A couple of years ago when I used the 06:55 Skipton to Leeds on a December Saturday I was surprised to find that all of the seats seemed to be reserved, even more surprising when we consider that beyond Leeds it only called at Doncaster and Grantham.

 

[221129]

An arrival before 10:00 will be useful for those going down to London for work or for spending as much time as possible in London for a weekend break. A couple of years ago when I used the 06:55 Skipton to Leeds on a December Saturday I was surprised to find that all of the seats seemed to be reserved, even more surprising when we consider that beyond Leeds it only called at Doncaster and Grantham.

Not sure what any of this has to do with a service running from Edinburgh to London though.

 

[Darandio]

An arrival before 10:00 will be useful for those going down to London for work or for spending as much time as possible in London for a weekend break. A couple of years ago when I used the 06:55 Skipton to Leeds on a December Saturday I was surprised to find that all of the seats seemed to be reserved, even more surprising when we consider that beyond Leeds it only called at Doncaster and Grantham.

Where do they talk about having an arrival in London before 10am? The focus in their advertising material is for a first service the other way, arriving in Edinburgh before 10am.

 

[Bald Rick]

Where do they talk about having an arrival in London before 10am? The focus in their advertising material is for a first service the other way, arriving in Edinburgh before 10am.

Indeed, and the LNER service from Edinburgh / Newcastle that arrives in London Pre 1000 was hardly noted for its overcrowding.

 

[Halish Railway]

Where do they talk about having an arrival in London before 10am? The focus in their advertising material is for a first service the other way, arriving in Edinburgh before 10am.

Yes, my mistake; On the other hand, the 07:10 Leeds to Aberdeen which arrives into Edinburgh at 10:20 has been very busy whenever I have been on it with a significant chunk of them getting on at Newcastle which explains why East Coast Trains want to get into the market.

It could also be a rival to the Caledonian Sleeper as it gets into Edinburgh at a good time and substantially cheaper if you can get a £25 ticket, however, the cost benefits depend on how expensive the night stay is in London.

 

[Wynd]

In what way, out of interest?

Ia this not going to be the quickest service on the ECML given the reduced number of stops?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could also be a rival to the Caledonian Sleeper as it gets into Edinburgh at a good time and substantially cheaper if you can get a £25 ticket, however, the cost benefits depend on how expensive the night stay is in London.

£0 if you live in London, of course.

 

[221129]

Ia this not going to be the quickest service on the ECML given the reduced number of stops?

Unlikely to be quicker than 1E01 when it returns.