East Grinstead line pre-electrification

[MatthewRead]

I understand thumpers use to work this line prior to electrification in 1987. Is it true that they use to run in 8 car formation splitting off at Oxted or Hurst Green with one half going to East Grinstead and the other going to Uckfield.

 

[30907]

As Thumpers were 3-car (all bar a handful) that's not quite right. 9 cars was the maximum, and some trains did split at Oxted (not Hurst Green). However, the basic off peak timetable from the mid 60s was an hourly East Grinstead with a connection from Oxted to Uckfield.
Through trains to Uckfield were basically peak-hour only (and included a cl33 hauled working in the evenings for years), though before the Lewes line closed there were a couple of off peak through trains.

 

[Elwyn]

I lived in Uckfield between 1979 & 1981 and the thumpers were the mainstay. Most operated to Victoria plus the class 33s operated 2 trains in the morning to London Bridge. There were 1 or 2 class 33 services back to Uckfield in the evening. They weren’t stabled at Uckfield so not sure where they came from.

The Thumpers used to slip a lot at leaf fall time, I recall that.

 

[Taunton]

They were the normal type for the Southern's diesel operations across the region. However it was only this route that ran such lengthy formations. Bizarrely, although the operation from East Grinstead was basically a London outer suburban one, they were based at St Leonards depot in Hastings. Every morning after the peak a 9-car ECS took three of the sets on a lengthy run from Victoria down through Haywards Heath, Lewes, and Eastbourne (reversing there once the triangle cutoff was closed) to St Leonards, where they were refuelled and/or changed over, a return service operating after lunch in time for the evening operation from Victoria. I used to do some work in the council offices overlooking the line at Lewes, and the noise as they opened up past the station was audible right at the back.

Slowly over time, as other diesel services closed or were electrified, more and more units came to this line to reinforce the peak service. The peak Class 33 loco hauled services, with Mk 1 stock, ran to the end from London Bridge, I think they were based at Selhurst, about three sets and four locomotives. The first evening train ran up top-and-tailed, the loco that brought the first one in then shunted out and took the second one out, etc, the loco that brought the last one in returning light. Don't know how they did the same operation at the country end.

 

[Elwyn]

Regarding how they changed ends at Uckfield, there was a run round facility, which was lost when the station was relocated to its present site.

 

[30907]

Bizarrely, although the operation from East Grinstead was basically a London outer suburban one, they were based at St Leonards depot in Hastings. Every morning after the peak a 9-car ECS took three of the sets on a lengthy run from Victoria down through Haywards Heath, Lewes, and Eastbourne (reversing there once the triangle cutoff was closed) to St Leonards, where they were refuelled and/or changed over, a return service operating after lunch in time for the evening operation from Victoria

It wasnt originally so bizarre, as the whole East Sussex network was open (Eridge-Hailsham was the first diesel route to close, and IIRC that was only part dieselised); St Leonard's was within easy reach of Lewes and had already lost some of its SE routes. Tunbridge Wells West was the main berthing and fuelling point on the system until closure.
ISTR the ECS running as a dated passenger as far as Eastbourne for a year or two.

The peak Class 33 loco hauled services, with Mk 1 stock, ran to the end from London Bridge, I think they were based at Selhurst, about three sets and four locomotives. The first evening train ran up top-and-tailed, the loco that brought the first one in then shunted out and took the second one out, etc, the loco that brought the last one in returning light. Don't know how they did the same operation at the country end.

They berthed at New Cross Gate until that closed, and at one time overnight at East Grinstead. Uckfield and East Grinstead both had run round facilities back then so working was straightforward.

 

[MatthewRead]

So when did class 33's cease operating on the Uckfield line then?

 

[30907]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81713-class-33-photos/page-2
Scroll halfway down - photo by an esteemed member of this forum who reckons mid May 1984. IIRC the 1821 LBG (correction - 1720) was the only Uckfield in either direction by then. I presume from the headboard the East Grinstead services lasted slightly longer - Uckfield would have been the first target for economy because of the extra mileage. I don't know where they found the units from, as T W West didnt close till a year later - but economy was the order of the day so...

 

[wimbledonpete]

I'm sure I remember six car trains from Victoria with the front 3 for East Grinstead and the rear 3 for Uckfield, with no need to change at Oxted. I don't think that was just peak hours, at least for a time. Thinking mid 70s to early 80s. There were some odd workings in the peak - there was a 9 car with the front 3 for Uckfield, middle 3 detached at Crowborough and rear 3 for East Grinstead.

 

[30907]

I'm sure I remember six car trains from Victoria with the front 3 for East Grinstead and the rear 3 for Uckfield, with no need to change at Oxted. I don't think that was just peak hours, at least for a time. Thinking mid 70s to early 80s. There were some odd workings in the peak - there was a 9 car with the front 3 for Uckfield, middle 3 detached at Crowborough and rear 3 for East Grinstead.

Just dug out the 78 and 80 timetables, and by 1980 most off peak trains divided at Oxted, and in one there was a Crowborough terminator. The loco hauled must have been the 1720 as the 1821 was to E Grinstead (post corrected above).

 

[satisnek]

Regarding how they changed ends at Uckfield, there was a run round facility, which was lost when the station was relocated to its present site.

From memory, there was a crossover on the London side of the level crossing and another on the Lewes side of the station (which the multiple units used), from where the double track continued for a short distance to buffer stops. I never saw a loco-hauled train being shunted here but the process must have held up the traffic a bit...

 

[nw1]

I remember the service pattern in 1985 or 1986 was definitely an hourly service from Victoria off peak, dividing at Oxted, using 207s. There was _considerable_ peak enhancement, something like 4 an hour to Oxted IIRC, with many of the peak extras going fast on the East Croydon - Oxted section.

Somewhat bizarrely these trains were the only trains except the Brighton "4" express to miss Clapham Junction. Presumably they ran slower being diesel so could not afford to make the stop without delaying something else.

In 1987 on electrification it became half hourly to East Grinstead, alternating between Victoria/Clapham Junction and London Bridge. The Uckfields then only went to and from Oxted off peak. Trains were a fairly even mix of CIG and VEP with some EPBs at peak times.

 

[The Lad]

Some of the LHCS was stabled on the viaduct at East Grinstead for a while and the 33's ran light to pick them up. I think eventually they were too much of a target to vandals and they came out from the smoke ECS.

 

[MatthewRead]

Some of the LHCS was stabled on the viaduct at East Grinstead for a while and the 33's ran light to pick them up. I think eventually they were too much of a target to vandals and they came out from the smoke ECS.

But when did the 33's last run on the Uckfield line?

 

[30907]

As far as regular passenger services are concerned, May 1984 - see link in post #8 above.