East Kilbride/Barrhead electrification updates

[Falcon1200]

(ISTR there are some parts of the route which never had double track to begin with)

Busby (station) to East Kilbride.

 

[Southsider]

I was under the impression that a second platform at EK was indeed in the offing. The "partial redoubling" just implies that not all of the "open route" sections of the branch will be redoubled. (ISTR there are some parts of the route which never had double track to begin with)

There’s no redoubling, the section under discussion was always single with passing loops. I think EK did have more platforms in the past.

Edit - correction, a look at some old photos on RailScot reveals a single platform but two lines, one of which has been lifted.

 

[route101]

I still wonder if East Kilbride will get wired after all.

 

[Southsider]

I still wonder if East Kilbride will get wired after all.

The political statements suggest yes but there is a definite lack of planning applications in the East Renfrewshire and South Lanarkshire systems.

 

[Trainbike46]

The political statements suggest yes but there is a definite lack of planning applications in the East Renfrewshire and South Lanarkshire systems.

What would they need planning applications for? As long as the station buildings aren't listed, wouldn't a lot of the work fall within NR authority?

 

[snowball]

The number of press releases that have referred to electrification to EK is getting quite large - for example ones about feeder stations, which always list Barrhead, EK, the Borders line and Fife as to be electrified. It would be a big embarrassment for Network Rail if EK were to be dropped now.

What would they need planning applications for? As long as the station buildings aren't listed, wouldn't a lot of the work fall within NR authority?

What about bridge rebuildings?

And there's the second platform at EK and the relocation of Hairmyres.

 

[clc]

It would be a big embarrassment for Network Rail if EK were to be dropped now.

It wouldn’t be Network Rail’s decision, it would be the Scottish Government that would receive the criticism. However, I don’t think the SG would be too concerned by the inevitable political backlash as long as the line was decarbonised as it knows passengers aren’t going to care if they are on a BEMU rather than an EMU.

 

[92002]

It wouldn’t be Network Rail’s decision, it would be the Scottish Government that would receive the criticism. However, I don’t think the SG would be too concerned by the inevitable political backlash as long as the line was decarbonised as it knows passengers aren’t going to care if they are on a BEMU rather than an EMU.

It's been said here many times before that electrification will go ahead. However the doubling of the line probably won't.

Work is already underway to Barrhead. Once that is completed a start will be made on the East Kilbride line.

 

[MadMac]

The number of press releases that have referred to electrification to EK is getting quite large - for example ones about feeder stations, which always list Barrhead, EK, the Borders line and Fife as to be electrified. It would be a big embarrassment for Network Rail if EK were to be dropped now.

What about bridge rebuildings?

And there's the second platform at EK and the relocation of Hairmyres.

You mentioned on another thread that a battery train needs about 1/4 of its route wired: once wiring to Barrhead is complete, Central-East Kilbride will be about 30% wired. Expect BEMUs, sold to the public as "This line is at the cutting-edge of technology". Note also how the narrative in general has shifted from "electrification" to "decarbonisation".

 

[NotATrainspott]

There really isn't anything wrong with battery technology removing the need for 100% electrification. For the sake of a lumpier power draw and a bit more mass and cost for each train, you avoid the need to wire up every metre of track an electric train might ever need to visit. 100% completion will no longer be required for diesel trains, with all of their downsides, to be history. No normal person is going to complain, or probably even notice.

Taking the 25kV wires to Busby and then leaving the single track section unelectrified could be justified fairly easily. The story can then, very rightly, be that full electrification can wait for any redoubling. The main problem I can see is that you'd probably want the terminus at East Kilbride to be electrified, but there'd be no better source of power than the end of the wires at Busby. Maybe a non-OHLE 25kV feed is possible but maybe the cost of that makes it not worthwhile in the first place.

 

[92002]

You mentioned on another thread that a battery train needs about 1/4 of its route wired: once wiring to Barrhead is complete, Central-East Kilbride will be about 30% wired. Expect BEMUs, sold to the public as "This line is at the cutting-edge of technology". Note also how the narrative in general has shifted from "electrification" to "decarbonisation".

One slight problem is there currently are no approved BEMUs in the UK. If and when some became Available the lead time would be quite sizeable.

So you would need to cost full electrification against the wait for an approved and tested BEMU. Time is money and there are plenty new or even off lease EMUs available. Staff training on any train also needs to be factored into the equation too.

The easy option would probably be full electrification.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There really isn't anything wrong with battery technology removing the need for 100% electrification. For the sake of a lumpier power draw and a bit more mass and cost for each train, you avoid the need to wire up every metre of track an electric train might ever need to visit. 100% completion will no longer be required for diesel trains, with all of their downsides, to be history. No normal person is going to complain, or probably even notice.

Has its advantages but unlike BiModes its going to be distance restricted by how much energy the battery can hold. Then as you identify below if you have to factor in isolated recharging you have the additional cost of providing those facilities. To cover a six car EMU at EK you would want min 1.5MVA which is fairly big load to take off 11kV suburban power networks and will definitely need to be SFC connected so even more expense. Thus it doesn't make sense not to just get on with completing the wires the remaining 7km. That said the Borders line are looking to get c30km from what they've declared (see thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ication-news-and-updates.236007/#post-5812284) on battery power with plenty of gradients and station stops with no suggestion of intermediate charging requirements so that will set the standard for what the rolling stock companies need to offer which would be more than enough to cover whole branch without any wiring.

Taking the 25kV wires to Busby and then leaving the single track section unelectrified could be justified fairly easily. The story can then, very rightly, be that full electrification can wait for any redoubling. The main problem I can see is that you'd probably want the terminus at East Kilbride to be electrified, but there'd be no better source of power than the end of the wires at Busby. Maybe a non-OHLE 25kV feed is possible but maybe the cost of that makes it not worthwhile in the first place.

 

[snowball]

One slight problem is there currently are no approved BEMUs in the UK. If and when some became Available the lead time would be quite sizeable.

Scotrail is about to begin procuring them with delivery to begin 2027*. By then they will be needed for, at least, the Borders line, the Fife circle and the Levenmouth branch, and conceivably, if the Fife partial electrification is sufficient, Edinburgh to Dundee and Perth. They will, of course, need to go through appropriate approval processes.

ScotRail’s New Trains Procurement Programme

An advert for a tender for legal services for the above (https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG455691) gives some more detail on the fleet plan ScotRail Trains (SRT) plans to replace 65% of its train fleet (around 675 carriages) in the period 2027 to...

www.railforums.co.uk

*It's possible that, although trains procured under Phase 1 of the programme are to begin delivery in 2027, they will begin with straight electrics, with the battery trains coming a year or so later.

 

[XAM2175]

One slight problem is there currently are no approved BEMUs in the UK. If and when some became Available the lead time would be quite sizeable.

Both Alstom and Stadler have battery EMUs operating on the continent, and Siemens have orders of production units for delivery as early as 2024. All three also have EMU families already approved for use in the UK - and Stadler will be delivering traction battery capability on the Class 777 fleet - so I don't think that it's such a big ask.

Scotrail is about to begin procuring them with delivery to begin 2027*. By then they will be needed for, at least, the Borders line, the Fife circle and the Levenmouth branch, and conceivably, if the Fife partial electrification is sufficient, Edinburgh to Dundee and Perth. They will, of course, need to go through appropriate approval processes.

ScotRail’s New Trains Procurement Programme

An advert for a tender for legal services for the above (https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG455691) gives some more detail on the fleet plan ScotRail Trains (SRT) plans to replace 65% of its train fleet (around 675 carriages) in the period 2027 to...

www.railforums.co.uk

*It's possible that, although trains procured under Phase 1 of the programme are to begin delivery in 2027, they will begin with straight electrics, with the battery trains coming a year or so later.

Exactly, it's hardly an urgent order.

I also think it's entirely moot because every indication so far is that the wires are going all the way to East Kilbride and there's been nothing to suggest that that won't happen.

 

[92002]

Scotrail is about to begin procuring them with delivery to begin 2027*. By then they will be needed for, at least, the Borders line, the Fife circle and the Levenmouth branch, and conceivably, if the Fife partial electrification is sufficient, Edinburgh to Dundee and Perth. They will, of course, need to go through appropriate approval processes.

ScotRail’s New Trains Procurement Programme

An advert for a tender for legal services for the above (https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG455691) gives some more detail on the fleet plan ScotRail Trains (SRT) plans to replace 65% of its train fleet (around 675 carriages) in the period 2027 to...

www.railforums.co.uk

*It's possible that, although trains procured under Phase 1 of the programme are to begin delivery in 2027, they will begin with straight electrics, with the battery trains coming a year or so later.

Siemens have already offered to modify a 385, but no news on that. Any fleet modification would no doubt need to be to tender. With the approval process needed too.

 

[Bald Rick]

One slight problem is there currently are no approved BEMUs in the UK. If and when some became Available the lead time would be quite sizeable.

Both Alstom and Stadler have battery EMUs operating on the continent, and Siemens have orders of production units for delivery as early as 2024. All three also have EMU families already approved for use in the UK - and Stadler will be delivering traction battery capability on the Class 777 fleet - so I don't think that it's such a big ask.

And of course TfW are going to have battery units.

Approval isn’t an issue.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Siemens have already offered to modify a 385, but no news on that. Any fleet modification would no doubt need to be to tender. With the approval process needed too.

385's are Hitachi did you mean a 380?

Mind you it seems that all manufactures are prepared to conduct trials with batteries and given lower utilisation of stock post covid it ought to be easy enough to release a unit for a manufacturer to retrofit but guess its a lot of effort for a safety case if there is no sign of a definitive order. Maybe Scotlands requirement will energise the suppliers/leasing companies to get some trials going.

 

[XAM2175]

And of course TfW are going to have battery units.

True, I'd forgotten the 756s.

Mind you it seems that all manufactures are prepared to conduct trials with batteries and given lower utilisation of stock post covid it ought to be easy enough to release a unit for a manufacturer to retrofit but guess its a lot of effort for a safety case if there is no sign of a definitive order. Maybe Scotlands requirement will energise the suppliers/leasing companies to get some trials going.

ScotRail's fleet plan is fairly none of the existing EMU fleets will be modified; the battery capability will come with the new units only, and there's not really any great value that I can see in grafting batteries onto 380s or 385s anyway unless they want to change how and where they're deployed.

In any case, and as previously noted, Stadler will be delivering traction battery capabilities on units of two different fleets that are already in production for use in the UK. Some have even already been delivered! Alstom and Siemens both have battery units in service and on order for operators on the continent. CAF have been advertising their willingness to supply a BEMU variant of the Civity for years, and Hitachi have BEMUs in service in Japan and every incentive to offer the capability here. Of course this doesn't mean that there could be whole BEMU fleets ready for service in Scotland tomorrow morning, but with the tender calling for delivery from 2027 onwards we have zero need to be biting our nails about feasibility.

Oh, and East Kilbride is getting wired all the way!

Siemens have already offered to modify a 385, but no news on that. Any fleet modification would no doubt need to be to tender. With the approval process needed too.

385's are Hitachi did you mean a 380?

I suspect they mean Hitachi - they gave a presentation in early 2019 suggesting a willingness to demonstrate battery deployment on 385s.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

True, I'd forgotten the 756s.


ScotRail's fleet plan is fairly none of the existing EMU fleets will be modified; the battery capability will come with the new units only, and there's not really any great value that I can see in grafting batteries onto 380s or 385s anyway unless they want to change how and where they're deployed.

Agree would need replacement traction inverters and control systems and full type approval I suspect.

In any case, and as previously noted, Stadler will be delivering traction battery capabilities on units of two different fleets that are already in production for use in the UK. Some have even already been delivered! Alstom and Siemens both have battery units in service and on order for operators on the continent. CAF have been advertising their willingness to supply a BEMU variant of the Civity for years, and Hitachi have BEMUs in service in Japan and every incentive to offer the capability here. Of course this doesn't mean that there could be whole BEMU fleets ready for service in Scotland tomorrow morning, but with the tender calling for delivery from 2027 onwards we have zero need to be biting our nails about feasibility.

Yes forgot TfW have gone all in for BEMUs without bothering with trials which is good to see. By the way ABB Traction are responsible for the Stadler drivetrain and batteries on the TfW units.

Oh, and East Kilbride is getting wired all the way!

Certainly no point half wiring it but would have been suitable for BEMUs.

 

[gingertom]

Agree would need replacement traction inverters and control systems and full type approval I suspect.

Yes forgot TfW have gone all in for BEMUs without bothering with trials which is good to see. By the way ABB Traction are responsible for the Stadler drivetrain and batteries on the TfW units.

Certainly no point half wiring it but would have been suitable for BEMUs.

wiring Barrhead and East Kilbride will allow Scotrail to operate a uniform suburban pure electric fleet. No hassles with a microfleet of BEMUs.

 

[snowball]

wiring Barrhead and East Kilbride will allow Scotrail to operate a uniform suburban pure electric fleet. No hassles with a microfleet of BEMUs.

I assume you mean Glasgow suburban. The procurement notice uses "suburban" to include routes that will definitely be BEMU-operated.

Phase 1 2022-23 - we will procure a new fleet of suburban trains which will enter passenger service between 2027 and 2030. These trains will connect local communities with Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perth, Dundee and Aberdeen.

Also, wiring the Maryhill line seems to have been postponed for the time being (possibly because of the low aqueduct?)

 

[XAM2175]

Also, wiring the Maryhill line seems to have been postponed for the time being (possibly because of the low aqueduct?)

Fairly sure it's just in the low-priority pile because running it with a DMU is actually an operational convenience - or at least that was the case last time I looked, anyway.

 

[gingertom]

I assume you mean Glasgow suburban. The procurement notice uses "suburban" to include routes that will definitely be BEMU-operated.



Also, wiring the Maryhill line seems to have been postponed for the time being (possibly because of the low aqueduct?)

my bad, I did mean Glasgow suburban.

I do believe that aqueduct is an (expensive) issue to wiring the Maryhill line. More so than the Clarkston road bridge- that one is going to be a challenge.

 

[Geogregor]

Bridge demolition en route:

https://twitter.com/BAMNuttall/status/1562002678452035584

 

[XAM2175]

Bridge demolition en route:

Great picture, but I think you might mean "in progress"

en route - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

 

[Falcon1200]

Great pic Geogregor ! My first home in Glasgow was a bedsit in Queen Square, over to the left of the photo, and I occasionally used the shop on the bridge - It look rather careworn then (1984), I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

 

[alf]

Yes.,a great picture, distant background as well as foreground.

Is it an official source that says Busby to East Kilbride will remain single, other than two platforms instead of one at Hairmyres, & is it stated categorically?

 

[Southsider]

Bridge demolition en route:

https://twitter.com/BAMNuttall/status/1562002678452035584

In many of these bridge replacement jobs the new one has been prefabricated and is on site, ready to be slotted into place. Anyone know why that’s not the case with this one?

 

[snowball]

In many of these bridge replacement jobs the new one has been prefabricated and is on site, ready to be slotted into place. Anyone know why that’s not the case with this one?

I think that usually happens with footbridges. A road bridge like this is probably too big and heavy for such treatment. It will require placement of concrete beams, replacing the mains services, casting the deck, building parapets, placing kerbs, laying carriageways and footways. The timetable is in post #590.

 

[InOban]

Aren't these pictures from a couple of weeks ago?