East London Line A-stock

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150222

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I have a few questions from when the East London Line was operated by LU A60/A62 stock.

*Where did they run ECS to/from? (Depot?)

*When did they stop running to Barking at peak times?

*Who crewed them? Did the ELL have their own crews or were they Metropolitan line crews?

I remember the few times I travelled on the line there was always a small Met line sticker on the front. If they knew that they would be used on more than one line why didn't they just not put a sticker on it? (Like the C69/C77 stock which are used on 3 lines).

Any answers appreciated. Thanks in advance. :)
 
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Daniel

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The ELL had their own crew.

I *believe* although I'm not 100% that stock was stabled at New Cross Gate. However it was maintained at Neasden and transferred by rail via a connection onto the district line on the south-east side of the circle.
 

trentside

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The stock was stabled at New Cross depot, which also undertook some light maintenance. It was also the train crew depot.

ELL crews were trained on the Met as far as Neasden, to enable the regular stock transfers to take place. I believe some of these were done in 8 car formation.
 

A60K

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Depot was just north of New Cross (not New Cross Gate). As Daniel said Neasden depot carried out heavy work.

ELL trains never ran to Barking, and the track layout didn't permit it. They did however have through trains between Hammersmith and the ELL many years ago.


 

Mutant Lemming

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I believe the 'Fluffy Link' at Neasden were also trained to take stock transfers to the ELL. I think there were also strict controls on movements of A stock from the curve round to Aldgate East to the connection with the ELL as there was insufficient clearance for two A stock to pass each other so that only one A stock was allowed to run in one direction at any one time.
 

Oracle

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In June 1977 A Stock was stabled at Barking Depot as part of the training process for ELL drivers. See UndergrounD magazine issue 5.

The St Mary's Curve had a restriction on it that no two trains were to pass on it because of tight clearances.
 

Daniel

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Not sure whether this is relavent, but I cam never remeber seeing an East London line stet with just 'East London line' golden yellow stickers on the windows, they always had 'Metropolitan line' ones just above http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1995_stock_bogie.JPG

(So where it says 'Northern Line' in this photo)

That's because the East London Line A stock were acctually Metropolitan line double ended stock.
 

Daniel

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Does anyone knowing if any former A stock East London drivers transferred to the new East London line?
All the east London drivers were intially transferred to Leytonstone (Central Line) depot and then dispersed around the network.

Some may well have applied as external applications to LOROL, though.
 

Southernrover

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Initially most ex ELL drivers were transferred to Leytonstone. However most have now transferred again to the Jubilee line based at North Grenwich
 

jopsuk

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Surely it would have made sense for them to transfer as they would have route knowledge of the line etc.
With the signalling being entirely changed, a lot of pointwork changes, the loss of the Shoreditch terminus, major supply alterations and the various extensions to the line, the route knowledge they did have would have been of limited application to the line as it is now.
 

Mutant Lemming

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With the signalling being entirely changed, a lot of pointwork changes, the loss of the Shoreditch terminus, major supply alterations and the various extensions to the line, the route knowledge they did have would have been of limited application to the line as it is now.
The overwhelming amount of training would have involved rolling stock as opposed to learning the road.
 

transmanche

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150222

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Depot was just north of New Cross (not New Cross Gate). As Daniel said Neasden depot carried out heavy work.

ELL trains never ran to Barking, and the track layout didn't permit it. They did however have through trains between Hammersmith and the ELL many years ago.


Sorry, At my house we have a tube map from 1990. It shows the ELL as part of the Met and having another look it is Met line trains extending to Barking from Whitechapel/Aldgate East in the peaks.
 

dosxuk

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Sorry, At my house we have a tube map from 1990. It shows the ELL as part of the Met and having another look it is Met line trains extending to Barking from Whitechapel/Aldgate East in the peaks.
Is it, by any chance, also missing the Hammersmith & City line (which was created from the Hammersmith - Barking Met service)?
 

A60K

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Sorry, At my house we have a tube map from 1990. It shows the ELL as part of the Met and having another look it is Met line trains extending to Barking from Whitechapel/Aldgate East in the peaks.
Nothing to be sorry about - the subsurface routes have been quite flexible over the years! A map from 1990 doesn't actually show the ELL as part of the Met - it will show it as East London Line in the Met colour with a white stripe to differentiate it. Orange came later that year. It was described as Met (East London section) until the 60s or 70s, but as I said trains only operated through from Hammersmith, not Barking, because that is the way St Mary's junction faced. They ceased around 70 or 80 years ago anyway.

Met trains to Barking is an entirely different kettle of fish! In 1991 the H and C line was created out of the Met as the pink line, but it was purely a mapping change and service patterns stayed exactly as they were before:
H+C - Hammersmith to Whitechapel (extended to Barking in the peaks)
Met - Amersham/Watford/Uxbridge to Baker Street (extended to Aldgate in the peaks)
Both of those peak extensions now also operate at other times.
 

Dstock7080

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Sorry, At my house we have a tube map from 1990. It shows the ELL as part of the Met and having another look it is Met line trains extending to Barking from Whitechapel/Aldgate East in the peaks.
Prior to July 1991 the service from Hammersmith to Barking was indeed shown in Metropolitan maroon but from then the Line management system changed to become the "Circle and Hammersmith" business division.
The change was indicated to passengers by showing the separation which already existed in the services, by indicating the new Hammersmith & City Line in pink.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Experienced drivers can get as little as 2 days training on new stock if they are already route trained.
Stock Training when transferring between lines used to take a week or so and was divided between the classroom and a practical assessment on stock in a depot. As there were some considerable differences between one armed bandits and 'proper' stock and an area manager's road test at the end of it I doubt that two days would be sufficient.

Even if you were conversant with a 'route' you would still have to be road trained over it with the relevant stock as the stopping marks and shunt limits would vary between stock. (C stock and 83 stock for instance being shorter than A stock).
 

Daniel

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Experienced drivers can get as little as 2 days training on new stock if they are already route trained.

But with regards to transferring from the LU ELL to LOROL ELL, LU driver's aren't seen as experienced drivers by NR, as far as I am aware an LU driver going to NR is seen as untrained.
 

jopsuk

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And, as I said, the route knowledge would be almost irrelvant due to the extensive route changes.
 
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