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East London Line
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Ivo
Established Member
Yes, um, somehow, I don't think that you're the only one. The obvious date would be 23 May, and this is the date suggested by Wikipedia as well. But given that the Lymington slammers are likely to go the day before the timetable change, there could be some problems. Cue a mass RailUK stampede on the SWML on the night of the 22nd... :roll:
- Sorry this isn't a concrete answer!
- Sorry this isn't a concrete answer!
Electrostar
Member
- Joined
- 18 May 2009
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- 313
The London Reconnections blog recently suggested a two-tier opening: 4 April for the line from Dalston Jn - NewCross, and 23 May for the full line. Obviously it's subject to change.
http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/search/label/east london line
http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/search/label/east london line
dk1
Veteran Member
Seen several test workings crossing the approach lines to Liverpool Street at Shoeditch High St & these are running at what appears to be line speed now.
poshbakerloo
Member
I can't believe its going to open (hopefully) next year! Seems only yesterday it closed!
SWT Driver
Member
Why no one has the nerve to put in the rest of the jigsaw to make it a circular service I don't know.
Why not do a Clapham to St Pancras service, nice & convenient to take the hoards off of the underground, very few stairs or escalators to worry about, it would serve the SW London sector quite nicely too.
Oops, I must apologise.. I've used that thing called common sense again!
Apologies for any offence caused by using it. :roll:
Why not do a Clapham to St Pancras service, nice & convenient to take the hoards off of the underground, very few stairs or escalators to worry about, it would serve the SW London sector quite nicely too.
Oops, I must apologise.. I've used that thing called common sense again!
Apologies for any offence caused by using it. :roll:
poshbakerloo
Member
I'm sure you mean this year!
I thought it was 2011?
Ivo
Established Member
The Second Phase - the South London Line - should be 2011, but for all we know it could be 2020! (Don't see why...) The East London Railway (will be strange calling it that...!) has always been pencilled in for the first half of 2010, although initially "first half" meant June 30th.
starlightEXPRESS
Member
Because it would take nearly twice as long to go from CLJ to STP via the ELR than by tube!
CLJ to STP via VXH and the Victoria line takes around 35 mins
CLJ to Dalston Junction via the ELR will take 41 mins; DLK to CIR takes 8 mins. Add in the time taken to traverse a hypothetical spur from CIR to STP, and the requisite padding and you're probably looking at an hour long journey at least.
You'd also need additional platforms at STP - there's not much room for the current services at the best of times.
tbtc
Veteran Member
...because people don't travel in circles.
And if you find a spare platform at St Pancras it'd be handy for the East Midlands/ Kent services.
A better idea would be using the existing interchanges around London like Kentish Town
Editted to add - given all the people in Kent who have complained about their service "only" serving St P and not London Bridge any more (due to HSL etc), there'd be just as many people in south west London complaining if their train from Tulse Hill or Barnes or wherever was diverted to St Pancras, meaning it took a lot longer...
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SWT Driver
Member
Both of you have missed the point!
So what if you're taking kids & luggage to St Pancras for the Eurodisney service, the last thing you want is to have the extra expense of a taxi or all the hassle of the tube, get off one train at Clapham Junction & a cross platform interchange, JOB DONE, Simple!
As for Starlight well I strongly suggest you get yourself a Quails rail atlas, I believe Vol.5 will enlighten you to the spur from Camden Road (NLL) into St Pancras.
So what if you're taking kids & luggage to St Pancras for the Eurodisney service, the last thing you want is to have the extra expense of a taxi or all the hassle of the tube, get off one train at Clapham Junction & a cross platform interchange, JOB DONE, Simple!
As for Starlight well I strongly suggest you get yourself a Quails rail atlas, I believe Vol.5 will enlighten you to the spur from Camden Road (NLL) into St Pancras.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Not exactly a major market is it?
In the grand scheme of things, I think the railways have bigger things to worry about
SWT Driver
Member
It a Tesco thing...
Every little helps!
Every little helps!
Minstral25
Established Member
Yes but railway planners do not look to help a Saturday morning once a year traveller. Oh no they do - that's why the stupid empty Gatwick Express takes up all the paths to Victoria from the overcrowded Brighton Line. Expect St P trains to be running by 2012 then in time for the Olympics.
Interesting that it takes 41 minutes to Dalston Junction when the new South London line is in, as it currently takes well over an hour to Dalston Kingsland from Clapham currently - hence you don't get off your Victoria train, jump on the tube to Highbury and back to the NLL to Dalston which often takes less than 30 minutes all in.
Snapper
Established Member
That is the plan is it not?
SWT Driver
Member
Well Snapper you're the man with the contacts & finger "on the pulse" and probably know more than any of us. Care to share the updated information?
Dreadnought
Member
- Joined
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I always thought the plan was to create an Overground "circle line" at some point with the East London Line just being the start of it.
The recently authorised Surrey Quays to Clapham section will make a circular London Overground *network*, but there won't be any circular London Overground *services* in the approved plans.
When the Dalston link is restored next year no trains from the East London Line will normally go any further west (anti-clockwise) than Highbury & Islington. There will also be no through trains across Clapham Junction - both the West and the South services will terminate there, with same-platform interchange.
I believe this is mainly to do with reliability - not wanting to create a much-larger version of the continuous Circle line which they've only just managed to abolish after 120-odd years!
For all its vast expense, I wonder how succesful the ELR is going to be?
From a South London perspective, It seems to have neglected several opportunities for better connections, for example no access or platform improvement work to New Cross Gate station, and a limit of four cars due to station lengths (resulting, I suspect, in hideous overcrowding on services on the bits of pre-existing route).
Most passengers will find it easier to get to west end/docklands locations by travelling through the London terminuses (due to no south coast services connections onto the ELR after Norwood Junction - only 4tph), and is there really that much demand for passengers to travel from South London to places like Shoreditch and Dalston anyway?
It won't be cheaper either, now that the line has mysteriously slipped into Zone 1...
edit: by pre-existing route, I meant to refer to the bits south of New Cross Gate
From a South London perspective, It seems to have neglected several opportunities for better connections, for example no access or platform improvement work to New Cross Gate station, and a limit of four cars due to station lengths (resulting, I suspect, in hideous overcrowding on services on the bits of pre-existing route).
Most passengers will find it easier to get to west end/docklands locations by travelling through the London terminuses (due to no south coast services connections onto the ELR after Norwood Junction - only 4tph), and is there really that much demand for passengers to travel from South London to places like Shoreditch and Dalston anyway?
It won't be cheaper either, now that the line has mysteriously slipped into Zone 1...
edit: by pre-existing route, I meant to refer to the bits south of New Cross Gate
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Capacity will be increased by the increased frequency on the core, correct, and it will be interesting to see how much demand materialises for the reopened line and the extensions.
I agree however that having only 4 car trains could be problematic if demand increases significantly. The major constraint is of course the length of some of the platforms on the original ELL and the difficulty and expense of extending some of these.
Most of the platforms, with a little refurbishment of disused parts, can take 5 cars without too much trouble, some would even take 6 cars. The worst problem though is Canada Water, which is 4 cars and no more. The ELL was closed when this was built, and possibly would need to be again for a significant period if it were to be extended.
One option might to insert another carriage to make 5 car trains and use SDO at Canada Water - this is what's been done on the DLR at Cutty Sark to allow 3 unit operation. Given the walk-through nature of the Class 378 this shouldn't be a major problem, and it's likely the same will be done at many stations on the Circle line when S Stock comes into service.
Another possible option would be a few 6 car trains as through services from the south stopping at only New Cross Gate, Shadwell and Whitechapel on the original ELL, but that makes it a more complicated service to operate and regulate, losing the commonality of the fleet.
I agree however that having only 4 car trains could be problematic if demand increases significantly. The major constraint is of course the length of some of the platforms on the original ELL and the difficulty and expense of extending some of these.
Most of the platforms, with a little refurbishment of disused parts, can take 5 cars without too much trouble, some would even take 6 cars. The worst problem though is Canada Water, which is 4 cars and no more. The ELL was closed when this was built, and possibly would need to be again for a significant period if it were to be extended.
One option might to insert another carriage to make 5 car trains and use SDO at Canada Water - this is what's been done on the DLR at Cutty Sark to allow 3 unit operation. Given the walk-through nature of the Class 378 this shouldn't be a major problem, and it's likely the same will be done at many stations on the Circle line when S Stock comes into service.
Another possible option would be a few 6 car trains as through services from the south stopping at only New Cross Gate, Shadwell and Whitechapel on the original ELL, but that makes it a more complicated service to operate and regulate, losing the commonality of the fleet.
Electrostar
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- 18 May 2009
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- 313
Many commuters in south London will
change at Canada Water for the Jubilee. Others who work in the city will discover how short a walk Shoreditch High Street is. Shoreditch has boomed in recent years. What was once a poor area became a trendy hang out and now attracts mainstream bar goers and clubbers. It and nearby Brick Lane are buzzing every night of the week. I predict this new path will open up the area to a whole new commuter - the south Londoner who gets the last train home after a post-work drink on weeknights, and then takes the 8pm
service from south London to Shoreditch on a weekend ready for a big night out. Even Columbia Road flower Market has (pardon the pun) blossomed in the time the ELL has been closed. Again, it's a whole new type of rail user.
change at Canada Water for the Jubilee. Others who work in the city will discover how short a walk Shoreditch High Street is. Shoreditch has boomed in recent years. What was once a poor area became a trendy hang out and now attracts mainstream bar goers and clubbers. It and nearby Brick Lane are buzzing every night of the week. I predict this new path will open up the area to a whole new commuter - the south Londoner who gets the last train home after a post-work drink on weeknights, and then takes the 8pm
service from south London to Shoreditch on a weekend ready for a big night out. Even Columbia Road flower Market has (pardon the pun) blossomed in the time the ELL has been closed. Again, it's a whole new type of rail user.
Correct. Thats the dates we are working to.
MCR247
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I do kind of agree. I know people who would rather go all the way around the circle line instead of changing in central london because
1) They don't want to lug their luggage up loads of stairs more than needed
2) Once they have a seat and room for their luggage, why get off and get another train with no garuntee of this if you aren't in a rush?
I can see SWT Driver's point, but generally the market for a slow through service isn't enough - Anglia Crosslink failed partly because of the slow amble along the NLL. What we need is Crossrail 2 as a Woking - Wimbledon - Victoria - Pic - KX - Hackney - Harlow service.
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