• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

East Midland Railway 158 and 170 replacement

absolutelymilk

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2015
Messages
1,398
Are there any plans for EMR to get replacements for the 158s and 170s? If not, will they have to wait for cascaded 170s from Northern (from 2030 onwards!) to replace the 158s or are there other units which might be going spare?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,316
Location
Macclesfield
Are there any plans for EMR to get replacements for the 158s and 170s?
There are not - The 158s will shortly be receiving a refresh and the 170s are only recently arrived (or returned, in the case of ex-Central Trains units) as part of EMR's long term core fleet.

If not, will they have to wait for cascaded 170s from Northern (from 2030 onwards!) to replace the 158s or are there other units which might be going spare?
Not necessarily, a tender for replacement stock could be issued at any time, though I'd wager that it wouldn't be until after the end of EMR's core term contract in October next year.
 

tfw756rider

Member
Joined
30 Nov 2024
Messages
247
Location
Wales
Are there any plans for EMR to get replacements for the 158s and 170s? If not, will they have to wait for cascaded 170s from Northern (from 2030 onwards!) to replace the 158s or are there other units which might be going spare?
The way I see it is the 170s don't need to be replaced as they're not old-fashioned, boxy, ex-British Rail trains (sorry @sprinterguy).

If the 16 Northern 170s were displaced as part of their new train introductions in the early 2030s, East Midlands Railway's regional diesel fleet could go from [43 170s and 26 158s] to [59 170s and 10 158s]. That would of course only mean a reduction in 158s though (while keeping the same number of regional diesel trains), not a total elimination of 158s, which in my opinion wouldn't be good enough.

However, if East Midlands Railway still didn't order any new trains to replace their 158s, but the electrification of the West Midlands' Snow Hill Lines happened, the new electric trains that would be required as part of that would allow 27 of the 172s (the gangwayed-cab /2s and /3s) to transfer to East Midlands Railway (EMR) to replace the 26 EMR 158s, so EMR's regional diesel fleet would then be 172s and 170s, rather than 170s and 158s (granted, tables would need to be fitted to the 172s, even before they were refurbished to EMR specification).
 

Trainbike46

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2021
Messages
3,255
Location
belfast
tbh, if it was up to me (and it isn't, unfortunately), I would be replacing 170s with (B)EMUs wherever possible, and make the replaced 170s available for service improvements or replacement of older diesel units elsewhere, including at EMR and XC.

So that would be:
Southern diesel islands to BEMU: releases 17 171s that can be turned into 170s
Potential for a cascade with new northern order: 16 170s
Electrification of Snow Hill lines and Chiltern: up to 39 172s and 28 168s

The last one of these doesn't appear likely to happen in a hurry!

Though the 158s aren't really due for replacement yet - they're much better than the other sprinters
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
8,197
The 170s are planned to be in service to 2040.

The 158s are planned to be withdrawn in 2030 and I believe formal discussions on their replacements are due to begin before long.
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
5,007
Location
County Durham
185s will also be available for cascade. I don’t think there’ll be any shortage of options to see off the remaining 158s in the next decade.
 

Top