East Midlands Metro

[cnjb8]

Had a nightmare trying to get to Nottingham to Belper on Thursday. Had to get a CrossCountry to Derby, wait 30 mins there for an EMR service to Matlock! I found that unacceptable, especially after EMR recently cut the Matlock to Nottingham service back to Derby!
Is it a good idea for a metro London suburban style service to connect Nottingham, Derby, Leicester, Sheffield and Peterborough with electric trains (which Grayling promised us anyways). I’m thinking for services:
Sheffield to Peterborough via Alfreton, Nottingham and Grantham
Sheffield to Leicester via Derby
Doncaster to Peterborough via Lincoln
Worksop to Grantham via Mansfield and Nottingham
Crewe to Skegness via Stoke, Derby, Nottingham and Grantham
Cleethorpes to Matlock via Grimsby, Lincoln, Newark Castle, Nottingham and Derby
Cleethorpes to Newark North Gate via Grimsby and Lincoln
Barton-upon-Humber to Cleethorpes via Grimsby
Lincoln to Leicester via Newark Castle and Nottingham

Probably very not feasible but I think the East Mids could do better with a high frequency Metro service.
Could use the 365s or the 350/2, especially good for 110mph capability for mainline use.

 

[JonathanH]

Probably very not feasible but I think the East Mids could do better with a high frequency Metro service.

I suspect the problem is track capacity at the major stations where everything funnels through a limited number of lines and platforms.

Could use the 365s or the 350/2, especially good for 110mph capability for mainline use.

Not in the near future. I'm not sure the 110mph capability is particularly relevant or could ever be on the routes you mention and there aren't any electrification plans in the offing.

 

[Aictos]

30 minutes to wait at a station for a branch line service isn't that bad, think yourself lucky that you still can get a direct train to Belper when at the moment, 95% of the services on the Marston Vale are buses.

 

[zwk500]

Had a nightmare trying to get to Nottingham to Belper on Thursday. Had to get a CrossCountry to Derby, wait 30 mins there for an EMR service to Matlock! I found that unacceptable, especially after EMR recently cut the Matlock to Nottingham service back to Derby!

So this entire proposal is in response to having to wait 30 minutes?

What frequency are we talking? In order to really be a useful metro you need need core routes ideally above 2tph.

110mph is not going to help a metro style service stopping at every station. What you want is acceleration. Top speed is for when you get 30-50 miles between stops.

 

[30907]

The current woes of EMT have been discussed elsewhere.
Restoring the service that is in the Working Timetable would resolve the issue. It provides 4tph on the core route Nottingham-Derby (including the through Matlock service).

The OP's proposal includes extending Mansfield-Nottingham to Grantham, and a quadrupling (!) of service to Cleethorpes, but otherwise is a re-jig of existing routes (they do not specify frequency or stopping patterns; I am assuming hourly minimum).

 

[cnjb8]

I suspect the problem is track capacity at the major stations where everything funnels through a limited number of lines and platforms.


Not in the near future. I'm not sure the 110mph capability is particularly relevant or could ever be on the routes you mention and there aren't any electrification plans in the offing.

So this entire proposal is in response to having to wait 30 minutes?

What frequency are we talking? In order to really be a useful metro you need need core routes ideally above 2tph.

110mph is not going to help a metro style service stopping at every station. What you want is acceleration. Top speed is for when you get 30-50 miles between stops.

The current woes of EMT have been discussed elsewhere.
Restoring the service that is in the Working Timetable would resolve the issue. It provides 4tph on the core route Nottingham-Derby (including the through Matlock service).

The OP's proposal includes extending Mansfield-Nottingham to Grantham, and a quadrupling (!) of service to Cleethorpes, but otherwise is a re-jig of existing routes (they do not specify frequency or stopping patterns; I am assuming hourly minimum).

I don’t really know the frequency. I think it would be a nice idea, but would not happen in a million years. The routes do seem a bit daft but I was trying to aim to get all routes to pass through rather than terminate at major stations, impractical at Nottingham with all the A and B platforms. This idea would probably take loads of work on electrification and extra paths for the trains and probably a totally changed timetable. Not feasible at all

 

[Blurb]

A Metro like service through highly rural areas with low population density feels like a recipe to lose lots of money and starve the railway of resources for development/maintenance/shiny new trains in the medium term.

 

[HSTEd]

110mph is not going to help a metro style service stopping at every station. What you want is acceleration. Top speed is for when you get 30-50 miles between stops.

That isn't really true.

Stopping every ~30km/20 miles the Tokaido Shinkansen still manages a stoppings service with an average speed well over 100mph.

Stopping every 20km, the Kyushu Shinkansen manages close to 90mph average.

We are not living in a world of lousy loco hauled trains with appalling acceleration performance any more.


But anyway, given the lousy state of the railway infrastructure, the only reasonable way to build an East Midlands Metro is tram trains on the Nottingham Tram system.

 

[zwk500]

That isn't really true.

Stopping every ~30km/20 miles the Tokaido Shinkansen still manages a stoppings service with an average speed well over 100mph.

Stopping every 20km, the Kyushu Shinkansen manages close to 90mph average.

We are not living in a world of lousy loco hauled trains with appalling acceleration performance any more.


But anyway, given the lousy state of the railway infrastructure, the only reasonable way to build an East Midlands Metro is tram trains on the Nottingham Tram system.

BIB is key - The area of railway being considered is not comparable to a Shinkansen.

The difference between 100mph and 110mph is something like 3 seconds a mile. So to save 30 seconds you need 10 miles uninterrupted running at the higher speed. Swap a Sprinter for a modern EMU and you'll save 1 minute per stop easy (30 seconds better braking, 30 seconds quicker acceleration). Between Sheffield and Derby or Nottingham, stopping all stations, which is the better option? Especially when you throw in the East Midland's perennial problem with severe PSRs at tight corners and junctions, such as Trent & Derby.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The East Midlands Railway network is disjointed and needs simplifying.
I think there's a limit on Cleethorpes & Lincoln to Nottingham services caused by the flat crossing at Newark, hence why Crewe trains end at Newark Castle.
It is a shame the Robin Hood Line doesn't extend from either end, a real missed opportunity.