East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[DarloRich]

Intriguing! Do you have a link?

That plan has been around for donkeys, but with a reversal at Bletchley - and was part of the case for the new bay at MKC. I'd hope for a doubling of service with the Vivarail units, maybe, as there might actually be some demand there - and with more units, the final MKC stretch might be doable.

A new chord I wasn't aware of - might be tricky above the sidings there.

It is worth pointing out this is a council wish list. 90% of these jobs will not happen.

As for the curve: It isnt realistic or cost effective at present. The benefit can be delivered, today, by reversal at Bletchley. It is pleasing to note that that the council acknowledge this plan may "require and extra rail line into Milton Keynes" because that cant be easily delivered either! IF the council are serious they better start buying up land. They wont because they haven't got a pot to urinate in. That wont stop the usual wibblers coming along and wibbleing about this. Again.

TBH there are bigger fish for the council to fry. For instance there is no mention of sorting out Beltchely station so it actually faces the current town centre rather than the town centre of the 1930's or of connecting it to the adjacent bus station. They could also focus on sorting out the bus service in MK. It is diabolical.

It is also good to note they have Marston Vale Level crossing closures on the long term plan.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBH there are bigger fish for the council to fry. For instance there is no mention of sorting out Beltchely station so it actually faces the current town centre rather than the town centre of the 1930's or of connecting it to the adjacent bus station.

Isn't opening an entrance on that side going to be part of the EWR work to add a flyover platform? Or has that been descoped now? I do agree it is very necessary, though it could be costly - continuing the existing footbridge on over to a platform on the flyover on the current station side may not be too hard by comparison, whereas to open another entrance it'll pretty much require converting it to subway access instead.

FWIW the 1930s "town centre" is nowhere near the station, it was basically a collection of shops around the Three Trees/Swan/whatever the other pub was that is now a block of flats. The barber's shop (Cutting Corner) is I guess one of the last remnants of it.

They could also focus on sorting out the bus service in MK. It is diabolical.

It is, though as a more recent arrival in MK than me (I think) I hate to think what you would have thought of it in about 2001, it has improved markedly since then, believe it or not. (To give you an idea, think a mix of Plaxton Beavers and third-hand Darts running half hourly on most routes with a very sparse evening service indeed (last buses mostly before 1800), Solos every 20 minutes on the 5 being the best of the lot).

 

[DarloRich]

Isn't opening an entrance on that side going to be part of the EWR work to add a flyover platform? Or has that been descoped now? I do agree it is very necessary, though it could be costly - continuing the existing footbridge on over to a platform on the flyover on the current station side may not be too hard by comparison, whereas to open another entrance it'll pretty much require converting it to subway access instead.

No idea if it is in the E-W scope. It better be! I assume some form of "gateway" with lifts and steps up the platforms on the flyover with a bridge extension to reach to current footbridge on P6

FWIW the 1930s "town centre" is nowhere near the station, it was basically a collection of shops around the Three Trees/Swan/whatever the other pub was that is now a block of flats. The barber's shop (Cutting Corner) is I guess one of the last remnants of it.

At least the station faces that direction!

It is, though as a more recent arrival in MK than me (I think) I hate to think what you would have thought of it in about 2001, it has improved markedly since then, believe it or not. (To give you an idea, think a mix of Plaxton Beavers and third-hand Darts running half hourly on most routes with a very sparse evening service indeed (last buses mostly before 1800), Solos every 20 minutes on the 5 being the best of the lot).

I don't believe you! it isnt so much the style or make of buses that are the problem. The services themselves seem confused, slow, long winded and don't serve all areas of the town, especially the newer estates or the outlying villages. Fenny has a very poor bus service for instance.

 

[The Ham]

The services themselves seem confused, slow, long winded and don't serve all areas of the town, especially the newer estates or the outlying villages.

That's not surprising. As a case study I was working on a site (not in MK, but I wouldn't be surprised if the thinking was the same) where there was going to be 1,800 new homes. The council had penciled in plans for that to be served by a bus which already existed, however it meant that the bus route would be lengthed and it already wasn't very direct (in that it wove through another new-ish development). We proposed extending a different route (one which only served the far side of town currently) and proposed that it came a different route from the town centre so as to also serve the hospital.

The council didn't like that suggestion but said that we should have a meeting with the bus operator. The bus operator jumped at our suggestion and have us a lot of support in providing draft timetables and route maps for our proposal.

Chances are without our foresight the council would have specified the route and the bus company would have been left to run a loss making route knowing that it would fit cut once the developer funding had run out.

As it was they could see that with some developer funding to provide some start up costs (new buses, subsidy to get it started, etc.) that the route we proposed was much more likely to be sustainable as it added to the bus network rather than bolting on to the edge of it.

 

[swt_passenger]

No idea if it is in the E-W scope. It better be! I assume some form of "gateway" with lifts and steps up the platforms on the flyover with a bridge extension to reach to current footbridge on P6...

The design and access statement presented to the TWA inquiry only refers to the future possibility.

6.7.11
The underpass has been designed such that an eastern entrance from Saxon Street could be incorporated beneath the access road at a later date.
http://bailey.persona-pi.com/Public-Inquiries/east-west-rail/core-docs/nr-11.pdf

Section 6.7 page 40 describes the Bletchley station works. The building with the stairs and lifts for the southbound platform will be very near the roundabout. I don’t think a major entrance with all normal facilities will be that straightforward.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Section 6.7 page 40 describes the Bletchley station works. The building with the stairs and lifts for the southbound platform will be very near the roundabout. I don’t think a major entrance with all normal facilities will be that straightforward.

The present entrance is a smallish area that just has toilets, two TVMs and two ticket office windows (and is, unusually for an indoor area of a railway station, open 24/7 as there is no other way onto the platforms). As many people will still arrive by car at the "old" entrance, I'd imagine a smaller one with just, say, two TVMs and a remotely monitored small barrier line will suffice entirely.

 

[davetheguard]

One day I'm hoping to visit this thread and find that work has actually started on site. Anyone know when that is currently supposed to be?

After 105 pages of interesting discussion on here; years of planning and hoops to jump through; changes of scope; electrification announced; electrification cancelled; I might well be tempted to jump in the air and shout "Yes!" before celebrating with a pint (or two) when the shovel finally breaks some earth.....

I'm sure it's going to be a fantastically useful new railway once finished, but the process & bureaucracy has been byzantine and apparently never ending.

 

[swt_passenger]

One day I'm hoping to visit this thread and find that work has actually started on site. Anyone know when that is currently supposed to be?

After 105 pages of interesting discussion on here; years of planning and hoops to jump through; changes of scope; electrification announced; electrification cancelled; I might well be tempted to jump in the air and shout "Yes!" before celebrating with a pint (or two) when the shovel finally breaks some earth...

They have already started on site, because it’s an existing rail corridor, but only to the extent they can before the TWA Order is approved. So that’s mainly site clearance. I also think the overhaul of the Bletchley viaduct is underway, from previous posts.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Not strictly relevant to this thread, but does anyone know what has happened to the collection of vintage wagons that were stabled for many months/years in the exchange sidings at Bicester? There were ex-BR ferryvans, Warflats, Warwells and MOD curtain-sided palvans. Have they been scrapped or taken away for overhaul and future use?

 

[edwin_m]

There's a thread on RMWeb that may have more local contributions. Off the top of my head I've seen references to the OLE attachment being transferred from the flyover to a new support arrangement, work starting on the flyover itself, and various site clearance further west which seems to have been left to grow back again.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/i...y-to-oxford-line/&tab=comments#comment-889186 (quote not appropriate as it's 21 pages long)

 

[DarloRich]

One day I'm hoping to visit this thread and find that work has actually started on site. Anyone know when that is currently supposed to be?

After 105 pages of interesting discussion on here; years of planning and hoops to jump through; changes of scope; electrification announced; electrification cancelled; I might well be tempted to jump in the air and shout "Yes!" before celebrating with a pint (or two) when the shovel finally breaks some earth.....

I'm sure it's going to be a fantastically useful new railway once finished, but the process & bureaucracy has been byzantine and apparently never ending.

Work has started. Shovels have already broken earth.................

Section 6.7 page 40 describes the Bletchley station works. The building with the stairs and lifts for the southbound platform will be very near the roundabout. I don’t think a major entrance with all normal facilities will be that straightforward.

that is fine. an entrance will do!

 

[richieb1971]

Shovels may have entered ground but deadlines are fast approaching. Maybe it's a case of last minute wonders but without platforms at bletchley it can be conceived that nadda else is happening. Could the line conceivably open without bletchley platforms?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shovels may have entered ground but deadlines are fast approaching. Maybe it's a case of last minute wonders but without platforms at bletchley it can be conceived that nadda else is happening. Could the line conceivably open without bletchley platforms?

There aren't platforms anywhere yet. They don't take that long to build. Crikey, a whole office block can go up within 2 months.

 

[swt_passenger]

Shovels may have entered ground but deadlines are fast approaching. Maybe it's a case of last minute wonders but without platforms at bletchley it can be conceived that nadda else is happening. Could the line conceivably open without bletchley platforms?

Which deadlines are you referring to?
Major work to commence late 2019 - (if TWA Order approved)?
Timetabled service to commence late 2023?

 

[richieb1971]

Edited

 

[richieb1971]

There aren't platforms anywhere yet. They don't take that long to build. Crikey, a whole office block can go up within 2 months.

It's taking 11 months to replace a bridge north of Bedford station spanning 4 tracks. I've seen videos of a bridge replaced in 12 hours. Which scenario bletchley comes into is anyone's guess but my guess is that it will take 2 years minimum.

Which deadlines are you referring to?
Major work to commence late 2019 - (if TWA Order approved)?
Timetabled service to commence late 2023?

Yes

 

[swt_passenger]

Aren't the platforms at bletchley elevated? Doesn't sound easy to me especially over roads as well. The platforms need to be west of the flyover junction going down to MKC.

Yes they are elevated, and yes they are before the flyover junction. This has been known for years. The document I linked to a little while ago (post #3125) shows broadly where they are, and explains how they will be built, it differs because part of the length is on embankment and part is alongside flyover. None of it seems technically novel.

 

[richieb1971]

Yeah well in my world the difficult bits should start earlier than the easier bits. Isn't that good logic?

Bletchley has to be the hardest bit.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah well in my world the difficult bits should start earlier than the easier bits. Isn't that good logic?

Bletchley has to be the hardest bit.

You seem to be the only one saying it’s difficult though.

 

[The Planner]

They have to fix the flyover first, no point building platforms if you have to take sections of the flyover out and then put them back.

 

[DarloRich]

They have to fix the flyover first, no point building platforms if you have to take sections of the flyover out and then put them back.

which is the work that has started. The track and ballast have already been removed.

 

[swt_passenger]

which is the work that has started. The track and ballast have already been removed.

They also mention in the design statement that the platforms will be built on separate structures alongside the flyover, with the platform edges overlapping it. The explanation is to avoid increasing the load on the flyover, but it will presumably also simplify the build.

 

[richieb1971]

Sounds good. Still got to be hardest bit regardless of how easy it might be. I cannot think of a grander structure needed for EWR.

 

[DarloRich]

They also mention in the design statement that the platforms will be built on separate structures alongside the flyover, with the platform edges overlapping it. The explanation is to avoid increasing the load on the flyover, but it will presumably also simplify the build.

Hopefully. The flyover still needs work from what I understand.

Sounds good. Still got to be hardest bit regardless of how easy it might be. I cannot think of a grander structure needed for EWR.

Some of the earthworks along the line will need work. That kind of engineering can be very complicated.

 

[cle]

Wasn't Bletchley scoped back to a single platform? As part of all the Grayling 'efficiencies'...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wasn't Bletchley scoped back to a single platform? As part of all the Grayling 'efficiencies'...

I thought it was too (as it could then be simply built on the flyover over the space for a second track) - but I guess not. The saving would be quite significant even if you had double track either side of it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Wasn't Bletchley scoped back to a single platform? As part of all the Grayling 'efficiencies'...

I think that might be Aylesbury Vale Parkway, which remains a single through track in the present plans, but had previously been intended to be doubled. I’ve been following this for a while and don’t recall it ever being officially proposed for Bletchley.

 

[richieb1971]

Going back a bit, I assume any MKC terminator from Bedford would use the current platforms rather than the new ones to reverse?

 

[bspahh]

I thought it was too (as it could then be simply built on the flyover over the space for a second track) - but I guess not. The saving would be quite significant even if you had double track either side of it.

This talk from 2016

talks about Bletchley High Level having "a pair of new platforms" 12mins 34s.

At 28 minutes 20s, he says:

Refurbishment of our golden asset - Bletchley flyover - which turns out is perfectly good after sixty years of not carrying any trains except it doesn't meet any of the design codes for today and we've got to do some quite significant refurbishment and strengthening to be able to sign it off for RA10 at 40 miles an hour

 

[DarloRich]

Sounds good. Still got to be hardest bit regardless of how easy it might be. I cannot think of a grander structure needed for EWR.

I assume so. Although there are not plans for such a service.