East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[Tobbes]

Budget announcement unlikely.

There is still a lot to be done, but based on past experience I would expect an announcement in late May or early June. The main draft report is currently sitting on my desk for review.

Good to hear - and nice to hear that it isn't all about political presentation.

 

[Neen Sollars]

Excellent. Thank you.

 

[richieb1971]

I assume the path/alignment north of Bedford is still the preferred choice and its just a matter of choosing which fields the line will split between Bedford and Cambridge?

 

[zwk500]

I assume the path/alignment north of Bedford is still the preferred choice and its just a matter of choosing which fields the line will split between Bedford and Cambridge?

Route E (Bedford - St Neots/Templecombe - Cambourne - Southern Approach) was confirmed as the preferred corridor, IIRC. There's still some narrowing down as to exactly where the ECML station will be, I think as well as various other choices around the junction at the Cambridge end and all the other points where there's not an obvious option.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Route E (Bedford - St Neots/Templecombe - Cambourne - Southern Approach) was confirmed as the preferred corridor, IIRC. There's still some narrowing down as to exactly where the ECML station will be, I think as well as various other choices around the junction at the Cambridge end and all the other points where there's not an obvious option.

I believe Route E has already been selected (might be wrong), and the only decision now is on the exact route alignment (see below an extract from EWR's website).



By the looks of it, the main sticking point is the Sandy/St Neots area. Will there be direct integration/interchange with ECML, or will it be operationally and transferably separate?

 

[zwk500]

I believe Route E has already been selected (might be wrong), and the only decision now is on the exact route alignment (see below an extract from EWR's website).

By the looks of it, the main sticking point is the Sandy/St Neots area.

Yes, that's where I thought it was at. It was hinted at upthread that the report is awaiting review in the office before being published.

Will there be direct integration/interchange with ECML, or will it be operationally and transferably separate?

AIUI it will be operationally separate but there will be a passenger interchange, similar to Tamworth.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Are there any plans for Bedford - Cambridge to be electrified? It would be a waste if not...

 

[zwk500]

Are there any plans for Bedford - Cambridge to be electrified? It would be a waste if not...

Depends if Bicester-Bedford has been done by then. I would not expect it to be wired unless the onward portion was also wired, although as a new railway I would expect the bridges to be built with clearance for future work.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

AIUI it will be operationally separate but there will be a passenger interchange, similar to Tamworth.

Good to see there will be an interchange then, rather than just slapping a station in the "middle of nowhere". I'd assume Thameslink/Great Northern services will stop there...

Depends if Bicester-Bedford has been done by then. I would not expect it to be wired unless the onward portion was also wired, although as a new railway I would expect the bridges to be built with clearance for future work.

So far none of EWR is electrified (not even the brand new phase 1!)

 

[zwk500]

Good to see there will be an interchange then, rather than just slapping a station in the "middle of nowhere". I'd assume Thameslink/Great Northern services will stop there...

I guess so, as I imagine it will be accompanied by a rather large development

So far none of EWR is electrified (not even the brand new phase 1!)

True, I get lost with which parts count as EWR in between everything else. (part deleted as was going into speculation)

 

[richieb1971]

View attachment 130171

It seems the only thing that is concrete is the bit I don't like. Never was a fan of going north of Bedford and coming into Cambridge from the south. If those alignments were a piece of string it would stretch 1.5x the distance its supposed to be going.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

True, I get lost with which parts count as EWR in between everything else. (part deleted as was going into speculation)

You aren't the only one!

If I remember correctly, Phase 1 is the new construction between Oxford and Bletchley (reached halfway in track laying ~10 days ago), Phase 2 is an enhancement/improvement of the Marston Vale Line, and Phase 3 is Bedford - Cambridge.

It seems the only thing that is concrete is the bit I don't like. Never was a fan of going north of Bedford and coming into Cambridge from the south. If those alignments were a piece of string it would stretch 1.5x the distance its supposed to be going.

It does seem a little stupid, but it was probably selected due to Cambridge being designed to allow for more trains from the south (as opposed to the north), and the potential expansion options post-phase 3, as services have been proposed to run as far as Norwich/Ipswich with improvements on the existing infrastructure (electrification...?)

 

[12LDA28C]

You aren't the only one!

If I remember correctly, Phase 1 is the new construction between Oxford and Bletchley (reached halfway in track laying ~10 days ago)

Do you mean the halfway point between Bicester and Bletchley has been reached? Of course trains have been running between Oxford and Bicester Gavray Junction for several years.

 

[zwk500]

If those alignments were a piece of string it would stretch 1.5x the distance its supposed to be going.

That's hardly unusual for railways - London to Paris runs nearly 100 miles west of the direct line.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Do you mean the halfway point between Bicester and Bletchley has been reached? Of course trains have been running between Oxford and Bicester Gavray Junction for several years.

See here: https://eastwestrail.co.uk/news/project-news/new-track-laying-train-passes-half-way-point

Track laying from Bicester to Bletchley passes the halfway point​

There was a sense of excitement in Winslow last week as the new track construction (NTC) train reached Winslow's new railway station, which marks the halfway point for track construction on Connection Stage 1 of East West Rail.


The overall stretch for this stage of East West Rail is 66km and, with 50% of track still to be laid in the area, there’ll be more opportunities to catch a glimpse of the NTC train in action down the line.


Moving forward at pace

The NTC train, which is one of only two of its kind in the country, uses a rapid track laying system and works much faster than conventional methods. In fact, it carries enough railway sleepers to install up to 1.1km of track during each 10-hour shift.

To reduce any potential impact these works may have on local communities, the majority of equipment and supporting materials for track construction are delivered to site by rail. This has helped remove around 4,000 lorry journeys from local roads.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depends if Bicester-Bedford has been done by then. I would not expect it to be wired unless the onward portion was also wired, although as a new railway I would expect the bridges to be built with clearance for future work.

I suspect the whole thing is very likely (a) to be operated by Chiltern Railways or whatever happens to succeed it, and (b) thus electrification will be closely linked to if/when that is electrified.

 

[zwk500]

I suspect the whole thing is very likely (a) to be operated by Chiltern Railways or whatever happens to succeed it, and (b) thus electrification will be closely linked to if/when that is electrified.

AIUI, it's using the same class as LNR are getting, with drivers being based in Bletchley, where LNR already have a base, and will be sharing more track with the LNR Bedford-Bletchley track than the Chiltern London-Oxford services. It's not like LNR (and their sister operation WMR) don't already have diesel operations, so I'm not sure why people think it's so obvious to be taken over by Chiltern than to go to LNR.

 

[richieb1971]

That's hardly unusual for railways - London to Paris runs nearly 100 miles west of the direct line.

Using railway builds of 100+ years old as a comparison for EWR is a stretch. The line is built on speed improvements over what existed between Bedford and Cambridge 60 years ago. The alignment seems more about pleasing the inbetween criteria rather than the end to end criteria.

 

[zwk500]

Using railway builds of 100+ years old as a comparison for EWR is a stretch. The line is built on speed improvements over what existed between Bedford and Cambridge 60 years ago.

London-Paris was opened between 1993 and 2007.

The alignment seems more about pleasing the inbetween criteria rather than the end to end criteria.

Again, that's not an unreasonable thing to do if the intermediate traffic is more valuable than the end-to-end traffic (as EWR is likely to be, with people commuting into Bedford or Cambridge more than between the two).

 

[Trainbike46]

There are a lot of reasons for not just drawing a straight line between Bedford and Cambridge though. A lot of the reason for not using the old alignment is that it was built over in too many places

Notably, avoiding bulldozing too much housing (inlcuding the cost implications it has), and serving the pretty sizable town that is Cambourne (Cambridgeshire)

 

[richieb1971]

There are a lot of reasons for not just drawing a straight line between Bedford and Cambridge though. Serving the pretty sizable town that is Cambourne (Cambridgeshire)

Corrected.

 

[zwk500]

Corrected.

Is it a bad thing to serve a large town close to any feasible route though? To get out of Bedford you have to head north, and any crossing of the A1 and ECML is going to be in the St Neots area due to geometry reasons anyway. May as well pick up the probably quite significant revenue from Cambourne on the way past.
The railway exists for the many, and therefore will inevitably always be a compromise between individual requirements.

 

[12LDA28C]

AIUI, it's using the same class as LNR are getting, with drivers being based in Bletchley, where LNR already have a base, and will be sharing more track with the LNR Bedford-Bletchley track than the Chiltern London-Oxford services. It's not like LNR (and their sister operation WMR) don't already have diesel operations, so I'm not sure why people think it's so obvious to be taken over by Chiltern than to go to LNR.

Pretty sure that LNR will not be running EWR, nor will drivers be based at Bletchley but time will tell.

 

[Mikey C]

Bicester to Bletchley is a relatively low cost rebuild of a previous railway to kick the whole EWR project off.

Building a brand new railway between Bedford and Cambridge would be way more ambitious and long term, so I'd be amazed if it wasn't electrified from the start. Especially as by the time it opens, electrification of the Chiltern Lines and the western section of EWR will surely be underway or at least in planning.

 

[richieb1971]

Is it a bad thing to serve a large town close to any feasible route though? To get out of Bedford you have to head north, and any crossing of the A1 and ECML is going to be in the St Neots area due to geometry reasons anyway. May as well pick up the probably quite significant revenue from Cambourne on the way past.
The railway exists for the many, and therefore will inevitably always be a compromise between individual requirements.

It seems very Victorian in design, joining up places of interest at the expense of (at a guess) 5 miles of twisting track joining and avoiding particular things. My main interest is always going to be Bedford and I feel these priorities pose the most risk to housing and bridging east and west of Bedford. The last consultations that I watched in video format (can't find liinks right now) had 3 bridges in Bedford potentially requiring a rebuild along with a station refurb. My main interest in this thread is if those things will still happen. But for the moment I'm working with the map that Jammy dodger put forward. It does seem to me that the strength of the line (between Bedford and Cambridge) is built around pre-existing population hubs. I assume the 100mph/100 min end to end travel time (is that right?) is still feasible with the latest designs?

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Pretty sure that LNR will not be running EWR, nor will drivers be based at Bletchley but time will tell.

AIUI, it's using the same class as LNR are getting, with drivers being based in Bletchley, where LNR already have a base, and will be sharing more track with the LNR Bedford-Bletchley track than the Chiltern London-Oxford services. It's not like LNR (and their sister operation WMR) don't already have diesel operations, so I'm not sure why people think it's so obvious to be taken over by Chiltern than to go to LNR.

I wouldn't expect either to take over EWR - WMR/LNR is more focused around Birmingham, with some services extending to Euston, and Chiltern runs an arterial route into Marylebone.

As we are getting into speculation here, I have created a spin-off thread to discuss the topic: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-rolling-stock-discussion-speculation.244267/

 

[Jammy Dodger]

I assume the 100mph/100 min end to end travel time (is that right?) is still feasible with the latest designs?

Looking at the proposed options, route 2 ultimately gives the alignment for the highest speeds.

What are the specifications for phase 1/2 in terms of speed?

 

[cle]

Bicester to Bletchley is a relatively low cost rebuild of a previous railway to kick the whole EWR project off.

Building a brand new railway between Bedford and Cambridge would be way more ambitious and long term, so I'd be amazed if it wasn't electrified from the start. Especially as by the time it opens, electrification of the Chiltern Lines and the western section of EWR will surely be underway or at least in planning.

Might anything from London ever use an electrified line?

For instance a few peak TL extensions to Cambourne (or EMR/Corby stock) - or even a couple of TL Cambridge via Bedford (of course not to be used for London-Cambridge journeys, but maybe operationally plus offering e.g. Cambridge-Luton/AP etc - although Tempsford is another intersection with TL!) - might be handy for TL stock moves too, not that that justfies anything - but a fringe benefit.

 

[12LDA28C]

Bicester to Bletchley is a relatively low cost rebuild of a previous railway to kick the whole EWR project off.

The EWR project was 'kicked off' several years ago with the reopening of the line from Bicester Town (now Village) initially to Oxford Parkway and later into Oxford itself, as the Western section of EWR.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Looking at phase 3 specifically, construction costs are likely to be >£1.5bn. Electrification would be much easier/cheaper during construction, so it would make sense.