East West Rail Link Cambridge - Bedford is it worth it?

[The Ham]

Channel Tunnel's not even 50% full, if we were being realistic this would probably never come about... But hey!

At present, I would have thought that would change quite soon when DB start running trains & E* get their new trains serving new routes.

 

[D365]

Fair enough, but it would take more than twice as many trains as we have now in order to fill it up good and proper, and that's not going to happen overnight. Air travel is well established between Britain and the continent, although if fares between London and a city were the same for air and rail, I know which I'd prefer... Would take some serious advertising to encourage further modal shift.

Speaking of modal shift, I wonder how Cambridge-Oxford would compete with Stagecoach X5.

 

[HSTEd]

Could probably have a huge selection of winter services to a variety of places in the Alps and Summer services to a variety of places in the South of France and Spain, now that there will soon be a continuous high speed line from London to Malaga.

The question is how much of a market there is for the latter? It all depends on how big a train can fit the platforms at the destination and what the travel time would be.

 

[D365]

Aren't there at least a few (direct and one-ticket connecting) ski-trains?

 

[jopsuk]

A realistic (rather than the super-shinkansen-tube) Varsity line should be capable of doing Oxford-Cambridge in an hour and a half- the "as the crow flies" distance between the stations is 67 miles. That would be under half the time of the X5.

 

[tbtc]

I wonder how Cambridge-Oxford would compete with Stagecoach X5.

I think that the bulk of the X5 passengers will be doing shorter distance journeys (than "end to end" ones), so it really depends on the route taken by any rail link.

Oxford - Bicester is already a rail route. Milton Keynes would be a big destination for passengers, but presumably any EW rail link isn't going to allow journeys from Milton Keynes to Bedford/ Cambridge? And no service to Buckingham?

 

[Metrailway]

I think that the bulk of the X5 passengers will be doing shorter distance journeys (than "end to end" ones), so it really depends on the route taken by any rail link.

Oxford - Bicester is already a rail route. Milton Keynes would be a big destination for passengers, but presumably any EW rail link isn't going to allow journeys from Milton Keynes to Bedford/ Cambridge? And no service to Buckingham?

Isn't MKC to Bedford planned after Bletchley remodelling is completed?

 

[tbtc]

Isn't MKC to Bedford planned after Bletchley remodelling is completed?

I don't honestly know - I can see Oxford - MK working well as a rail link, but I didn't think there'd be a MK - Bedford service. Would be handy for me living on the MML with friends in MK if there were though!

 

[Buttsy]

A curve towards MK Central has been on the drawing board since MK Central opened I believe

 

[jopsuk]

Apparently the last but one transport secretary is now saying there should be a Cambridge-Oxford-South Coast motorway. Sigh.

 

[D365]

I can see that motorway proposal integrating well with Girton Interchange (Cambridge, A14-M11-A428)... Not. Rail services into MKC have been on the cards for a while, as has been said.

 

[HSTEd]

A realistic (rather than the super-shinkansen-tube) Varsity line should be capable of doing Oxford-Cambridge in an hour and a half- the "as the crow flies" distance between the stations is 67 miles. That would be under half the time of the X5.

I do note that building a high speed standard line on the sections of alignment that have to be built from scratch is not going to significantly increase the capital cost of the system.
Even if it has to be signalled using colour lights for 125mph maximum speed.
We don't have to go for all out high speed (although personally I think we should if we want rail growth to continue or even accelerate).

Apparently the last but one transport secretary is now saying there should be a Cambridge-Oxford-South Coast motorway. Sigh.

This is inevitable if the average speed of the car journey beats the rail journey, as it would using the normal speed line being discussed here.
If it was 30hr on the train versus 90 minutes in the car you might have a chance, 90 minutes on the train versus 90 minutes in the car is not going to cut it.

 

[al green]

A curve towards MK Central has been on the drawing board since MK Central opened I believe

That isn't going to happen. The current remodelling of Bletchley will allow trains to reverse in Bletchley station so that they can do MKC-Bedford via Bletchley.

 

[Buttsy]

That isn't going to happen. The current remodelling of Bletchley will allow trains to reverse in Bletchley station so that they can do MKC-Bedford via Bletchley.

So once the East - West link is fully up and running (in my dreams), a double reverse will be required within a couple of miles (MKC and Blecthley)? Makes Bletchley High Level almost pointless...

 

[philjo]

As I understand it, the Bedford-Oxford services will call at Bletchley but will not go to MK so no need for them to reverse.
there will be an oxford-MK service (& also one from Aylesbury)
A local Bedford-MK service would also run which would need to reverse at Bletchley.

It would add to the journey times & use up WCML paths if all east-west services detour to MK.

 

[cle]

Yep, MK is basically a spur/branch of its own. In time perhaps trains might extend to Northampton but Bletchley will be the main MK station on E/W.

 

[stanley T]

Speaking of modal shift, I wonder how Cambridge-Oxford would compete with Stagecoach X5.

Between Oxford and Cambridge, massively faster - about an hour and a half - the roads are not great.

Given that Beeching wanted it kept open, I think Barbara Castle closed it because it was one in the eye for the uppity Oxbridge types who patronised her in Parliament and the Civil Service.

The obvious long distance service is Norwich - Bristol. Until this particularly resurrected pig learns to fly, a quick and cheap fix is a curve at Manton on the Peterborough -Leicester line, then run Norwich -Peterborough-Corby - Bedford-Bletchley- Oxford, with a bus link from Bedford to Cambridge via Cambourne and Cambridge west park and ride.

 

[D365]

Between Oxford and Cambridge, massively faster - about an hour and a half - the roads are not great.

Given that Beeching wanted it kept open, I think Barbara Castle closed it because it was one in the eye for the uppity Oxbridge types who patronised her in Parliament and the Civil Service.

...with a bus link from Bedford to Cambridge via Cambourne and Cambridge west park and ride.

No way. If you mean another MisGuided Bustway, we are not taking it again!

 

[stanley T]

No way. If you mean another MisGuided Bustway, we are not taking it again!

No, just on the A428, until/if you can do it by train. It would still cut an hour off the Oxford-Cambridge journey time.

 

[D365]

Yep, sounds fair. Re-aligning and dualling from St. Neots to Caxton Gibbet would be good too, but that's another story.

 

[moggie]

Western jcn to Heathrow - approved.

Airport runway extension at Birmingham - proceeding.

Stanstead airport - divested from BAA and ripe for further expansion.

Missing link for a new Y shaped rail link between all three airports avoiding London - Bedford - Cambridge and that ignores the obvious tech industry growth around Cambridge. I'm sure it will happen.

 

[D365]

I can't tell for certain but I do think it would be difficult to add another track or two to Stansted-WAML. Heathrow-Birmingham will get HS2 (will the current HEx stop at OOC? -the Heathrow spur is only Phase 2), with a people mover system similar to the existing from Birmingham Interchange to International stations and the airport.

Heathrow-Stansted? I think Heathrow-Gatwick would be more useful first. Unless there is some way of linking EWR to the Heathrow branch and adding a million and one new platforms.

 

[AlanFry1]

Given that Beeching wanted it kept open, I think Barbara Castle closed it because it was one in the eye for the uppity Oxbridge types who patronised her in Parliament and the Civil Service.

WOAH, WOAH, WOAH WAIT A SEC if what you're saying is true then that important link was closed just to p[beep] off some temporary uni. people....... oh boy what a mess...

 

[Con]

WOAH, WOAH, WOAH WAIT A SEC if what you're saying is true then that important link was closed just to p[beep] off some temporary uni. people....... oh boy what a mess...

That's nothing..CIE boss C.S. "Tod" Andrews who was far more savage than Beeching closed the Dublin (Harcourt Street) to Bray railway in 1958 as an appetizer for a decade of rail cuts, because as he said at a public meeting in the mid sixties "there were only a few 'oul Protestant solicitors from Carrickmines using it" :roll:

 

[tbtc]

Someone should write a book of urban myths re: Beeching etc

 

[DarloRich]

Hi, after reading about the East West Rail Link last night it got me wondering whether the Eastern section of the Link would be worth wile to build, a lot of the trackbed between Bedford and Cambridge has been either built over or turned into farmland, reinstating the track would cost millions of pounds. There are also a number of advantages as well incluing a direct link from Norwich/Ipswich to Oxford and the west of England and releif for freight from the congested north London Lines for freight. What do you think?

Yes it is worth it. Build it now. Quickly.

Although keeping it closed to simply annoy the tweedy, petty bourgouis, effette intelligentsia of Oxford and Cambridge is something that quite appeals to me

 

[route:oxford]

Given that Beeching wanted it kept open, I think Barbara Castle closed it because it was one in the eye for the uppity Oxbridge types who patronised her in Parliament and the Civil Service.

Just think, if she'd left it a bit longer, "The Open University" at Milton Keynes would be considered as forming the arc of education between Oxford & Cambridge.

 

[Trainfan344]

I think we shouldn't miss this opportunity to build a new channel tunnel to relieve future pressure, and extend from Cambridge via Lowestoft to Amsterdam

Via a gauge change and another tunnel the EWRL could become a vital strategic rail route from the Irish Republic to the Continent.

I am majorly in favour of this statement, it might revive Lowestoft

 

[Buttsy]

Just think, if she'd left it a bit longer, "The Open University" at Milton Keynes would be considered as forming the arc of education between Oxford & Cambridge.

Arc of education? More likely an axis of vileness...

 

[transmanche]

Air travel is well established between Britain and the continent, although if fares between London and a city were the same for air and rail, I know which I'd prefer... Would take some serious advertising to encourage further modal shift.

Rail has around 80% of the London-Paris and London-Brussels markets...