East West Rail - possible future service patterns?

[A S Leib]

What are the odds of Aylesbury – Winslow being built in the near future? Would there have been any viable services other than Aylesbury – Milton Keynes (I know Marylebone – MKC was ruled out, but e.g. Princes Risborough – Milton Keynes)?

 

[DavidGrain]

What are the odds of Aylesbury – Winslow being built in the near future? Would there have been any viable services other than Aylesbury – Milton Keynes (I know Marylebone – MKC was ruled out, but e.g. Princes Risborough – Milton Keynes)?

Aylesbury is off the cards until it suits HS2 to rebuild the line from Quainton alongside the HS2 track. Then who knows?

 

[The Planner]

Aylesbury is off the cards until it suits HS2 to rebuild the line from Quainton alongside the HS2 track. Then who knows?

Its not off the cards.

 

[cle]

They are doing the rail works, and to 90mph if I recall - just no commitment on a passenger service. But it would be physically possible!

Not sure how much can squeeze into MKC either, unless another line and bay(s) are indeed built! Or again, 1tph from somewhere, I'd think Oxford, is sent onwards to Northampton out of necessity.

 

[Mark24]

There is a local push to reopen Oxford to Cowley and the suggestion has been that it would be a Chiltern service using the EWR trains.

I do wonder if it would be possible to open the Cowley branch without the need for huge investment?
Essentially adding some basic platforms as stations and keeping the line single track for the time being.
This is what happened when the Bicester to Oxford line was was reopened in 1987.

 

[JamesT]

There is a local push to reopen Oxford to Cowley and the suggestion has been that it would be a Chiltern service using the EWR trains.

The initial service for the Cowley branch would be extensions of Marylebone trains, not EWR.

 

[cle]

They are interchangeable as it’s about clearing the bays at Oxford. Until more/through solves.

London probably has more demand. And getting through the main Up platform will be key.

But EWR appears more clockface for now, which would be critical for the single track / platform piece. So maybe Marylebone will standardise more again, in time.

 

[Merle Haggard]

They are doing the rail works, and to 90mph if I recall - just no commitment on a passenger service. But it would be physically possible!

Not sure how much can squeeze into MKC either, unless another line and bay(s) are indeed built! Or again, 1tph from somewhere, I'd think Oxford, is sent onwards to Northampton out of necessity.

Not really possible. No South-facing bays at Northampton, and the Euston - New St service each way occupies the only Up and one of the two Down platforms for more than 10 minutes every half hour. The other Down platform is on the remaining Down line, used for freight.

 

[MarkyT]

Not really possible. No South-facing bays at Northampton, and the Euston - New St service each way occupies the only Up and one of the two Down platforms for more than 10 minutes every half hour. The other Down platform is on the remaining Down line, used for freight.

There's possibly room to create 1 or 2 Bays south of the A4500 bridge if desired on a small part of the station car park.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There's possibly room to create 1 or 2 Bays south of the A4500 bridge if desired on a small part of the station car park.

There were once bays there (and the platform copings were still visible when the car park was open to the public - it's staff now) but they were off the line towards the Duston Junctions triangle (i.e. towards Blisworth or Wellingborough). A new connection to the Roade line is blocked by a (mainly retail) industrial estate.

 

[MarkyT]

There were once bays there (and the platform copings were still visible when the car park was open to the public - it's staff now) but they were off the line towards the Duston Junctions triangle (i.e. towards Blisworth or Wellingborough). A new connection to the Roade line is blocked by a (mainly retail) industrial estate.

New construction might work as shown below. 240m standage looks plausible. The bridge spans on the old alignment would be removed and replaced with a new structure for the new alignment to cross the river. Wouldn't be cheap!

 

[JKF]

Would Northampton to Oxford be commutable if developed? What sort of journey time would result?

 

[A S Leib]

Would Northampton to Oxford be commutable if developed? What sort of journey time would result?

~01:15 with a 13 minute connection at MKC; I don't know how long the average commuter to Oxford spends travelling from Oxford station, or how it compares with the average commuting time within London from Euston for commuters from Northampton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2024 ==

The passenger rail study for England's Economic Heartland (PDF), especially pages 44-57, might be relevant.

 

[fishwomp]

Not until the Marston Vale and MML is W10.

Just seen in November's Modern Railways that Syston to Sheet Stores Jcts are being cleared for W10 / HiCube. Down will be cleared from December; Up from May.

As currently the East Mid gateway from Felixstowe goes south at Syston, through Leicester, Nuneaton and Burton - a true midlands.great mystery tour.. then coupled with the new clearance, that means Wigston to Sheet Stores is done.

MML freight is mostly aggregates. There really wouldn't be much intermodal traffic, even if it were upgraded to W12

Well .. it _could_ have intermodal if it were cleared! If it's not, then it won't!

Anything that makes these more direct and quicker is good for business.

 

[Mgameing123]

A very far-fetched unlikely idea, but how about a service from Liverpool to Brighton via nuneaton, Milton Keynes, Oxford, Reading, Guildford, Gatwick, and then onto Brighton.

I can't lie just run a Milton Keynes to Gatwick Airport service. We don't need it to be longer.

 

[Nottingham59]

Just seen in November's Modern Railways that Syston to Sheet Stores Jcts are being cleared for W10 / HiCube. Down will be cleared from December; Up from May.

Good news. That will fill a big gap in the freight network

As currently the East Mid gateway from Felixstowe goes south at Syston, through Leicester, Nuneaton and Burton - a true midlands.great mystery tour.. then coupled with the new clearance, that means Wigston to Sheet Stores is done.

Though EM Gateway direct to Syston would need a reversal. Where would they run round? Or would the train propel into the EM Gateway approach siding?

Well .. it _could_ have intermodal if it were cleared! If it's not, then it won't!

I was thinking south of Kettering. Syston to Trent could be a useful W10 route.

Anything that makes these more direct and quicker is good for business.

Agreed

 

[A S Leib]

Are there currently any plans to introduce a Sunday service between Bletchley and Bedford before services start running from Oxford to Bedford and further east?

 

[Mgameing123]

Are there currently any plans to introduce a Sunday service between Bletchley and Bedford before services start running from Oxford to Bedford and further east?

Is there not a Sunday service?

 

[Starmill]

Is there not a Sunday service?

Nope. There is usually a service on Bank Holidays now, however.

 

[Mgameing123]

Nope. There is usually a service on Bank Holidays now, however.

Well if there isn't a Sunday service then they most likely will either:

A. Provide a Sunday Shuttle

B. Make the EWR trains stop at the Marston Vale local stations.

 

[DavidGrain]

Are there currently any plans to introduce a Sunday service between Bletchley and Bedford before services start running from Oxford to Bedford and further east?

You are looking too far ahead. We do not, as yet, have services running between Oxford and Bletchley/MKC. Oxford to Bedford is going to depend on improvements to the Marston Vale Line which is still in the consultation stage. Further east will take more time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well if there isn't a Sunday service then they most likely will either:

A. Provide a Sunday Shuttle

B. Make the EWR trains stop at the Marston Vale local stations.

C. Not have trains at the local stations on Sunday;

D. Go for the 5 station option and so those stations that do remain get a Sunday service from EWR.

I think D is most likely, C next likeliest, A and B very unlikely. I don't for instance think Apsley Guise will ever see a Sunday train aside from the occasional special service that sometimes operates on event days in Bedford.

 

[HST43257]

Semi separate note - I can’t really believe that all services will stop at the consolidated stations post-Cambridge section (as per the consultation). There’s real journey time opportunities but I don’t think the current plan makes the most of it, losing what 10-15 mins on the Bletchley to Bedford section if they call at 5 extra places

2tph Oxford to Milton Keynes all stations minus Islip

2tph Oxford to Cambridge semifast inc nonstop Bletchley to Bedford

2tph Bletchley to Cambridge all (consolidated) stations

 

[12LDA28C]

Semi separate note - I can’t really believe that all services will stop at the consolidated stations post-Cambridge section (as per the consultation). There’s real journey time opportunities but I don’t think the current plan makes the most of it, losing what 10-15 mins on the Bletchley to Bedford section if they call at 5 extra places

2tph Oxford to Milton Keynes all stations minus Islip

2tph Oxford to Cambridge semifast inc nonstop Bletchley to Bedford

2tph Bletchley to Cambridge all (consolidated) stations

Surely this depends entirely on what happens with the Marston Vale in terms of stations that survive, whether they retain any kind of LNW service, service pattern at those stations and if and where any passing loops are provided. Pretty pointless an EWR train running non-stop Bletchley to Bedford if it's going to catch up a local stopper, or even one calling at the consolidated stations if that's what ends up happening.

 

[HST43257]

Surely this depends entirely on what happens with the Marston Vale in terms of stations that survive, whether they retain any kind of LNW service, service pattern at those stations and if and where any passing loops are provided. Pretty pointless an EWR train running non-stop Bletchley to Bedford if it's going to catch up a local stopper, or even one calling at the consolidated stations if that's what ends up happening.

Pretty random timings as I’m no expert, but imagine the line is upgraded and it becomes something like

xx45 Bletchley nonstop to Bedford xx05
xx50 Bletchley calling at 5 consolidated stations to Bedford xx20

Repeating every half hour, creating a 15 min frequency for Bedford, Tempsford, Cambourne and Cambridge

 

[Mgameing123]

Surely this depends entirely on what happens with the Marston Vale in terms of stations that survive, whether they retain any kind of LNW service, service pattern at those stations and if and where any passing loops are provided. Pretty pointless an EWR train running non-stop Bletchley to Bedford if it's going to catch up a local stopper, or even one calling at the consolidated stations if that's what ends up happening.

I doubt they will go through the long process to close stations.

 

[12LDA28C]

I doubt they will go through the long process to close stations.

Not sure I share your optimism. Some of those stations are very poorly used.

 

[Severnia333]

Occasional Bristol -> Norwich through service, when EWR is eventually complete.

Temple Meads, Parkway, Swindon, Oxford, Bicester, Bletchley, Bedford, Cambridge, Ely, Norwich.

 

[Mgameing123]

Not sure I share your optimism. Some of those stations are very poorly used.

Issue is that for many of these areas the railway is all they have. Unless a bus service can be implemented then I’m pretty sure they will still be forced to run trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2025 ==

Occasional Bristol -> Norwich through service, when EWR is eventually complete.

Temple Meads, Parkway, Swindon, Oxford, Bicester, Bletchley, Bedford, Cambridge, Ely, Norwich.

We also should have a Milton Keynes - Gatwick Airport through service via Oxford & Reading.

 

[cle]

I do think a second Marston service, even to Bletchley (getting it to 2tph) might give a better sense of the suppressed and potential usage.

But maybe all stations and then continue to Oxford. Or principal stations and Oxford. Gives 2 opps for London and MKC transfers too.