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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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bspahh

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Can anyone point me to a source showing the estimated cost for the Western section or the Central section?

In the talk in Cambridge a couple of weeks ago, for the section between Bedford and Cambridge, they didn't give quotes for specific routes but said that the routes varied in length between 41km and 53km with journey times times between 25 and 30 mins with a cost of between £2bn and £3.5bn.
 
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snowball

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DfT press release (no actual info as far as I can see):

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ks-own-silicon-valley-rail-link-on-fast-track

A direct rail link between the university cities of Oxford and Cambridge took a step closer today (14 December 2017), as Transport Secretary Chris Grayling officially launched the East West Railway Company.

The Transport Secretary launched the new company, which will oversee the restoration of the link between the two academic powerhouses, nearly 50 years to the day since the closure of the old Varsity Line at the historic Second World War site of Bletchley Park.

The Transport Secretary also visited nearby Bletchley Station and Bletchley Viaduct, which are being re-opened as part of the new route. Bletchley Park, so vital in the UK’s Second World War effort, was a key stop on the old Varsity Line and is at the heart of the East West Rail line as it sits halfway between Oxford and Cambridge.

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said:

We are making the biggest investment in the railways since Victorian times to meet the growing demand for rail travel, while also boosting business and increasing productivity.

East West Rail is the perfect example of how we can revitalise the railways, grow the network and unlock jobs and housing growth. And Bletchley Park – the home of World War II codebreakers – is the perfect location to mark the historic occasion, because the line will be key to the development of this corridor as a world-class centre for innovation, technology and high-skilled jobs.

East West Rail will be one of the country’s most strategically important rail projects, with its direct link through the corridor dubbed the UK’s own ‘Silicon Valley’ when it is completed in the mid-2020s.

The new line will also create a direct link between East Anglia and central and southern England, delivering benefits for passengers and businesses regional and nationally by unlocking additional housing and economic growth.

Mr Grayling met with Rob Brighouse, interim chair of the East West Railway Company, regional council leaders and Milton Keynes South MP Iain Stewart for the launch.

He also met with Cyril Bleasdale who worked on the original Varsity Line construction in the 1960s and helped to build the Bletchley Viaduct.

Mr Bleasdale said:

I remember when we had our own little ceremony where I dug the first spade for it in 1962, so I’m delighted that the viaduct could be part of this historic line from east to west.

Rob Brighouse, interim chair of the company, said:

This railway has huge potential to spread prosperity all the way along the line, making life better for those who live and work here.

That’s why it’s so important to deliver it quickly and cost effectively; and that’s what the East West Railway Company has been set up to do. We are working very closely with local representatives, to make sure we build a railway that works for the passengers and the communities it will serve.

Councillor Ian Bates, on behalf of the East West Rail Consortium, said:

We welcome the formal launch of the East West Railway Company and its real emphasis on accelerating delivery of the Oxford to Cambridge link in support of economic growth. The consortium has played a pivotal role getting us to this point, and we have pledged to continue working in partnership to ensure there are trains on tracks at the earliest opportunity.

When the line opens, it will have interchange stations with 4 main railway lines radiating out of London, but it will run under or over each, minimising any risk of delay. The aim is to build a route that allows future upgrades to be incorporated with as little disruption as possible.
 

jimm

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I take it you mean Western?

Agree that it will be a licence to print money - and I suspect High Wycombe/Aylesbury to MK likely to be a nice little earner too.
 

Andyjs247

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Yes, Grayling was on BBC South Today last night on Bletchley Station. Personally I’m really not sure that setting up East West Railway Company Limited is anything to shout about. A quick check on Companies House shows that the company was only set up on 20 November 2017. Something that takes less than an hour to do. I would expect the company to have a website at least; but this is something that Grayling was on about a year ago and wanting to go faster!!

As far as I can see, Network Rail is still doing all the work.

One thing he did say was that construction would start next summer; presumably in the Calvert Box.
 

swt_passenger

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Yes, Grayling was on BBC South Today last night on Bletchley Station. Personally I’m really not sure that setting up East West Railway Company Limited is anything to shout about. A quick check on Companies House shows that the company was only set up on 20 November 2017. Something that takes less than an hour to do. I would expect the company to have a website at least; but this is something that Grayling was on about a year ago and wanting to go faster!!

As far as I can see, Network Rail is still doing all the work.

Network Rail is definitely responsible for Bicester to Bedford. EWR CO is east of Bedford. As stated in the budget, and repeated on the EWR website, as I posted here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/east-west-rail-progress-and-updates.99892/page-44#post-3212470

So to me, Bletchley is completely the wrong place to do the PR, he should have been in a random open field somewhere between Bedford and the ECML...
 

richieb1971

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So to me, Bletchley is completely the wrong place to do the PR, he should have been in a random open field somewhere between Bedford and the ECML...

Yes a bit of imagination. CGI backdrop of trains flying past etc.


As for NR doing all the work. The work that is important is the bit where you can start to see evidence of something remotely looking like a railway between Bicester and Bletchley. I'm almost ready to wager a bet that flying trains will take hold before this track gets laid.
 

Bald Rick

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Yes a bit of imagination. CGI backdrop of trains flying past etc.


As for NR doing all the work. The work that is important is the bit where you can start to see evidence of something remotely looking like a railway between Bicester and Bletchley. I'm almost ready to wager a bet that flying trains will take hold before this track gets laid.

Bet you £100k.
 

A0wen

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Network Rail is definitely responsible for Bicester to Bedford. EWR CO is east of Bedford. As stated in the budget, and repeated on the EWR website, as I posted here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/east-west-rail-progress-and-updates.99892/page-44#post-3212470

So to me, Bletchley is completely the wrong place to do the PR, he should have been in a random open field somewhere between Bedford and the ECML...

I think the reason Bletchley was used is some of those originally involved in the flyover construction - the flyover which is at long last about to see regular use. Sone if them were interviewed.
 

aylesbury

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Calvert to Bletchley was used for DMUs to Blechley depot, parcels from Acton to Northampton and I think newspaper trains although I saw them at Aylesbury. Frieght did run towards Oxford but mainly it stopped outside Bletchley in the yard the demise of wagon load traffic the yard was not needed .
 
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DarloRich

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Yes a bit of imagination. CGI backdrop of trains flying past etc.


As for NR doing all the work. The work that is important is the bit where you can start to see evidence of something remotely looking like a railway between Bicester and Bletchley. I'm almost ready to wager a bet that flying trains will take hold before this track gets laid.

shall I send you my bank account details now?

once again you seem unable to grasp that the bit of the job you focus on is but the end of a long chain of vital works that have to be carried out before building can start. You must know this yet seem not to care. You also fail to grasp utterly the political and financial challenges we face as an industry. It isnt as easy pointing at something and shouting MAKE IT SO!

Calvert to Bletchley was used for DMUs to Blechley depot, parcels from Acton to Northampton and I think newspaper trains although I saw them at Aylesbury. Frieght did run towards Oxford but mainly it stopped outside Bletchley in the yard the demise of wagon load traffic the yard was not needed .

The regular stone train also ran from Westbury (?) to Wolverton - it apparently brought Westerns up this way back in the day, as the kids say.
 

richieb1971

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I completely understand what you keep on banging on about Darlorich. Unfortunately I am the impatient type of person and I also believe there is an element of "smoke and mirrors" in this setup. I don't really know what the people in charge of this project are ACTUALLY doing. Time is passing, months and months, even years have passed and there is so much of this new route which has barely been touched at all. When years pass and you don't see a digger or spade in the ground, when you see the politicians do their bungee chord effect (you can have the money, now you can't) there just seems to be a lot priority jumping.

If I had £200(billion) and I wanted this project to get started and I heard "Its going to take 15 years to drum up some confidence, another 5 years to talk about planning, then 2 years to talk about what the end product will look like and another 2 years to build it". I'd already have left before that conversation ended.
 

Bald Rick

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It's reassuring to see these two people, who usually seem to know what they're talking about, being this confident.

To be fair it's a no lose bet. For £100k I'd go and lay some track myself on Christmas Day when no ones looking.
 

Bald Rick

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I don't really know what the people in charge of this project are ACTUALLY doing.

No, you don't. I suggest you investigate what it takes to build a railway, concentrating on all the things that have to happen before construction, and then come back and report to us. You might like to look into funding and consents in particular.
 

bspahh

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No, you don't. I suggest you investigate what it takes to build a railway, concentrating on all the things that have to happen before construction, and then come back and report to us. You might like to look into funding and consents in particular.

is a Youtube video of a talk from February 2016 on the planning and construction of the Western section of East West Rail.

There were a couple of times when the video stalled, and I think this is a part of the recording and not my connection to Youtube. I sat and waited and the video started again after about 30 seconds.
 
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richieb1971

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No, you don't. I suggest you investigate what it takes to build a railway, concentrating on all the things that have to happen before construction, and then come back and report to us. You might like to look into funding and consents in particular.

Yeah, I know we go round and round and I'm the nitwit who knows nothing. Perhaps the funding should have been made available before any bright ideas came up about reopening this line. This thread started in Feb2014 and i'm sure there was a thread before that. I'm pretty sure (not certain of course) that between that point in time and this point in time it was possible to get some track laid on this project. Correct me if I am wrong.
 

DarloRich

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Yeah, I know we go round and round and I'm the nitwit who knows nothing. Perhaps the funding should have been made available before any bright ideas came up about reopening this line. This thread started in Feb2014 and i'm sure there was a thread before that. I'm pretty sure (not certain of course) that between that point in time and this point in time it was possible to get some track laid on this project. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are right. Track could, of course, have been laid in this time. However that takes this line in absolute isolation and suggests that this is the number 1 priority for the government in the field of railway improvement and should have first call on the available resources both human and financial. It sadly isn't that easy, especially when politicians are involved.
 
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itfcfan

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is a Youtube video of a talk from February 2016 on the planning and construction of the Western section of East West Rail.

What a great video. That really helped get an understanding of what's involved in the planning of a (re-)constructing a railway of this kind. Thanks for sharing.
 

bspahh

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What a great video. That really helped get an understanding of what's involved in the planning of a (re-)constructing a railway of this kind. Thanks for sharing.

I liked the bit about the threat to get Siemens to invite Angela Merkel to the opening ceremony, if they didn't get anyone high enough up from the UK government.
 

Railwaysceptic

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is a Youtube video of a talk from February 2016 on the planning and construction of the Western section of East West Rail.

There were a couple of times when the video stalled, and I think this is a part of the recording and not my connection to Youtube. I sat and waited and the video started again after about 30 seconds.

You're right. It's not your connection; it's the recording. I've watched this video three or four times and it always freezes at the same point.
 

richieb1971

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Interesting video. Very pleased to hear that they are future proofing the project for 35 years. He said that north of Bedford was W6, but surely making that W12 would make more sense. I think I read somewhere they are only doing W10 north of Bedford. I see they are going to try and start work at the back end of CP5 or early CP6. So i'll not mention delays until June 2019 when I will expect work to have commenced.
 

edwin_m

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I liked the bit about the threat to get Siemens to invite Angela Merkel to the opening ceremony, if they didn't get anyone high enough up from the UK government.
Compared to re-uniting East and West Germany, East West Rail should be a piece of cake.
 

bspahh

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Interesting. The report is here: https://www.nic.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/5thStudio-FinalReport.pdf

It says the "most favourable" route for the central section is C2-2, which http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-c...entral-Section-Engineering-Summary-Report.pdf describes as:

From Bletchley Station the route is on the existing BBM line until south of Bedford where it diverts to the east onto the potential new alignment crossing the MML and ECML, with new split level stations at Bedford Parkway and a relocated Sandy Station. It joins the existing SBR near to Foxton Station and joins the BGK route north of Shelford Station to complete the CC2-2 route at Cambridge Station.

Route is 50km long with 39km of new twin track railway, new split level stations at Bedford Parkway (south of Bedford at intersection of MML) and a new (south of) Sandy split level Station at ECML . Route planning to consider a 1000m viaduct. 3 overbridges, 24 underbridges, & 49 culverts are affected. Within the Corridor there are landfill sites and quarries, watercourses, flood zones and alluvial deposits. Construction would generate an estimated 2.7million m 3 earthwork surplus. Construction would divide RAF Bassingbourne Barracks. Within 300m of the centreline, there are 2 Ancient Woodlands, one Scheduled Monument, 16 Grade II listed buildings, 2 registered parks, numerous flooding areas, 2 Countryside Right of Way (CRoW), 13 residential, 6 industrial, and 7 commercial buildings.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Where does it say the most favourable route is C2-2? I had a glance through the report, but couldn't see that.

I did notice a couple of remarks:

On page 5
5thStudioReport said:
While this report does not make recommendations on route alignments for East-West Rail and the Oxford-Cambridge Expressway, it does highlight the importance of considering the broader implications of different route options and the need for them to play complementary roles:

That suggests everything is still speculative on the route.

I also noticed this on page 45 (my bolding)
5thStudioReport said:
If East West Rail were to be routed to the south of Bedford rather than through the middle, there would be the potential for the eastern section of the Marston Vale line to operate as a tram-train service. France and Germany, for example, routinely use the tram-train service in similar situations, and it is currently being trialled in Rotherham.

That's definitely in the realms of pure speculation! I'm a bit sceptical that a route that sees just 1tph could be very useful to people as a tram-train - especially because elsewhere they suggest closing stations on the Marston Vale line:

5thStudioReport said:
For instance, in order for longer distance journeys to be optimal in terms of travel time, it may be necessary to close or reduce service to some existing stations (e.g. on the Marston Vale line), and to limit the number of new stations across the network.

Interesting that there's a map on page 37 of (hypothetical) connecting transit systems that clearly shows a Cambridge South station at part of East-West rail.

Overall I'm a bit confused by the report. I would though be very disappointed if they ended up building stations at both Bedford and Sandy which can only be easily accessed by car - which does seem to be one of the options being considered.
 

richieb1971

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This type of report was bound to raise its ugly head with such a big lead time between initial discussions of the new railway and actual lines on maps. Nothing stays the same for long and there is a prospectus of things changing that can swing the tide in a different direction.

This is why I do not believe money is being well spent. All these reports will become outdated and need to be done again. In the past 2 months or so there has been a video and now this report which gives us the belief that certain options are still alive when we believed they were dead and buried.

In the video it stated that the land at Swanbourne was only leased out a year ago. I mean, how did that happen? Definitely seems to me that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
 

bspahh

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Where does it say the most favourable route is C2-2? I had a glance through the report, but couldn't see that.

The legend for the map on page 114 says: "East West Rail Central Section C2-2 (most favourable)".

Overall I'm a bit confused by the report. I would though be very disappointed if they ended up building stations at both Bedford and Sandy which can only be easily accessed by car - which does seem to be one of the options being considered.

I think their idea is that if they are going to add housing for 1.9 million people along the route, places like Bedford and Sandy will grow so that the East West Rail station is surrounded by housing. If you need to get there from the current towns, then there would be buses/cycle lanes/whatever to get there.

I am sure that a lot could change before anything gets built.
 

snowball

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Where does it say the most favourable route is C2-2? I had a glance through the report, but couldn't see that.

The legend for the map on page 114 says: "East West Rail Central Section C2-2 (most favourable)".

This report was produced for the National Infrastructure Commission (the advisory body that was led by Adonis until a few days ago). In saying that route C2-2 is the most favourable they're quoting the result of a previous report (that was linked on here at the time) from the people who actually have the job of coming up with a route for E-W Rail. The new (well, November) report then goes on to recommend instead the variant route that passes north of Sandy.
 
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