East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[DarloRich]

Why, after the IPCC report on climate change was so damning of road traffic pollution?

because real world. I am not going to be drawn into this debate again. Members here are myopic at best.

 

[swt_passenger]

Short memory there - a whole swathe of road improvements were put on hold by John Prescott in 1997 when he canned the roads programme which damned a number of towns and villages to excessive traffic for 20 years as their long-awaited by-passes got deferred indefinitely.

To pretend that the road network has seen continued funding is disingenuous.....

They suffer from similar problems as the railway with preventive and corrective maintenance being spun as enhancements, and the same funding being announced on more than one occasion.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Which benefited everyone living in the town by relieving it of trafic gridlock, including the associated pollution you were so concerned with earlier.

Yes, that is exactly my point.

 

[HGS]

In case anyone is interested, I received this today regarding the public inquiry


Here are the links mentioned in the email:-
http://bicester-bedford.persona-pi.com/
http://bicester-bedford.persona-pi.com/pim

 

[bspahh]

In case anyone is interested, I received this today regarding the public inquiry
View attachment 55715

Here are the links mentioned in the email:-
http://bicester-bedford.persona-pi.com/
http://bicester-bedford.persona-pi.com/pim

http://bailey.persona-pi.com/Public-Inquiries/east-west-rail/core-docs/nr-06.pdf has an estimated cost of £1,084,726,000

http://bailey.persona-pi.com/Public-Inquiries/east-west-rail/core-docs/nr-05.pdf says

In addition to funds already available in Control Period 5, the Secretary of State for Transport has published a Statement of Funds available for Control Period 6. This provision is sufficient to deliver EWR2, provided it has the required consents and continues to be value for money.

The Department for Transport has confirmed the Government's commitement to EWR2 along with the allocation of funding subject to ongoing consideration to ensure the project delivers the best results for both rail users and taxpayers

 

[swt_passenger]

...has an estimated cost of £1,084,726,000

http://bailey.persona-pi.com/Public-Inquiries/east-west-rail/core-docs/nr-05.pdf says

Your second link, to the NR funding statement, now does actually refer to CP6:

The project spans two railway investment periods: Control Period 5 (2014 to 2019) and Control Period 6 (2019 to 2024). The costs of implementing the works are £150.095m in Control Period 5 and £934.631m in Control Period 6. In addition to funds already available in Control Period 5, the Secretary of State for Transport has published a Statement of Funds available for Control Period 6. This provision is sufficient to deliver EWR2, provided it has the required consents and continues to be value for money... etc

 

[bspahh]

Your second link, to the NR funding statement, now does actually refer to CP6:

Oops. They locked the PDF so I had to type it out. I've updated my post to refer to CP6

 

[aylesbury]

I have just watched a film about the line from Cambridge to Bedford with shots of how it was and how it is now. The final section is going to be a real problem judging by the amount of building that has been carried out on the alignment. The final route will be very expensive and must have a bearing as to what will materialise but we now have the new road looming over everything. This route will cause more problems than the rail one and will overshadow its progress possibly causing a scaled down reincarnation when it finally is built. The road looks to be a mini motorway and will doubtless become an outer M25 ,will it be extended past Cambridge north or east?

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I have just watched a film about the line from Cambridge to Bedford with shots of how it was and how it is now. The final section is going to be a real problem judging by the amount of building that has been carried out on the alignment. The final route will be very expensive and must have a bearing as to what will materialise but we now have the new road looming over everything. This route will cause more problems than the rail one and will overshadow its progress possibly causing a scaled down reincarnation when it finally is built. The road looks to be a mini motorway and will doubtless become an outer M25 ,will it be extended past Cambridge north or east?

The route from Bedford to Cambridge has not yet been decided so it is too early to say the old route will have this or that effect. It might have no
relevance at all! Any new route will have to make an accommodation with adjacent infrastructure.

 

[Bald Rick]

The road looks to be a mini motorway and will doubtless become an outer M25 ,will it be extended past Cambridge north or east?

It already is - it’s called the A14 / A11.

 

[deltic]

Network Rail's website notes further Environmental Information was submitted to the Secretary of State for Transport on 16 November 2018 and representations about the further environmental information should be sent to the Secretary of State on or before 28 December 2018.

 

[gallafent]

It already is - it’s called the A14 / A11.

… at that end, and the A34 at this end! … yup, and I think that's an openly stated purpose (sure I read that somewhere) as well as the old Oxford-Cambridge Arc spiel. The big bit of the project is mainly about filling in the gap between the A34 and the A421 (at the M1), it seems, as well as filling in the missing link bit A428 from A1 East …

 

[richieb1971]

Any updates on whats happening around the Bicester area at the moment? Read earlier in the thread some action was taking place in November of which we are at the end of it now.

Thanks.

 

[Dunnyrail]

So the Budget has allocated £20m for development of the ‘Arc’ I get sinking feelings about this!

http://www.cambedrailroad.org/fluidcms/files/files/Budget-2018-awards.pdf

“http://www.cambedrailroad.org/fluidcms/files/files/Budget-2018-awards.pdf”

This link is from the CamBed Railroad Group. A support lobby that is pushing for the East West Line between Bedford and Cambridge to follow the Northern Route.

Edited as requested by Mail, is this OK?

 

[Railwaysceptic]

So the Budget has allocated £20m for development of the ‘Arc’ I get sinking feelings about this!

http://www.cambedrailroad.org/fluidcms/files/files/Budget-2018-awards.pdf

That looks as if we are back to Square 1. I thought the research into the need for this new build railway had already been done and dusted.

 

[swt_passenger]

That looks as if we are back to Square 1. I thought the research into the need for this new build railway had already been done and dusted.

Cambridge to Bedford has never really been ‘done and dusted’. It’s often why this thread is such a difficult read, with many posters apparently viewing Oxford to Cambridge has a single project.

I blame the much abused term “Varsity Line”, some people have suggested such a service never really existed.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Cambridge to Bedford has never really been ‘done and dusted’. It’s often why this thread is such a difficult read, with many posters apparently viewing Oxford to Cambridge has a single project.

I blame the much abused term “Varsity Line”, some people have suggested such a service never really existed.

Well yes, but I've certainly gained the impression that the Government is convinced that an enormous number of houses is going to be built between Bedford and Cambridge and that it was essential to re-construct the railway to cope with the huge amount of commuting that would result. As far as I was aware, the only question remaining was if a feasible route could be found. Now, it seems the entire viability of the project is open to question. Didn't the DfT create a company to deliver this project?

Incidentally, I've never been convinced that Bedford to Cambridge would represent value for money. I'm far more interested in the Buckinghamshire element of East/West Rail.

 

[jimm]

Cambridge to Bedford has never really been ‘done and dusted’. It’s often why this thread is such a difficult read, with many posters apparently viewing Oxford to Cambridge has a single project.

I blame the much abused term “Varsity Line”, some people have suggested such a service never really existed.

Who has ever suggested it was done and dusted? But please remember that the original impetus for what became the East West Rail Consortium, which kept the whole idea on the agenda when the Government was simply not interested, came from Suffolk County Council, not Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire or Cambridgeshire.

People in East Anglia do not view east of Bedford as a 'nice-to-have' add-on, they view it as fundamental to the whole scheme - giving them improved access to a large swathe of England without the need to go anywhere near London, which was why they were keen on the idea in the first place.

Does it really matter what terminology is used? We're talking about transport for the 21st century, not the 1950s or 60s. In the 1962-63 timetabled, there were four trains a day covering the complete route between Oxford and Cambridge in both directions Monday to Saturday. The rest of the day a change at Bletchley was required.

 

[swt_passenger]

Who has ever suggested it was done and dusted?

Definitely not me. But the post I was replying to did.

 

[duffield]

...
Now, it seems the entire viability of the project is open to question. Didn't the DfT create a company to deliver this project?
...

I though this company's remit was just Bicester to Bedford?

 

[alexx]

Any updates on whats happening around the Bicester area at the moment? Read earlier in the thread some action was taking place in November of which we are at the end of it now.

Not a lot as far as I know, but I'll try and get some time to go look in the next few days. Here's some photos from my post on 5th November: East-West Rail: Progress and updates

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I though this company's remit was just Bicester to Bedford?

The Transport and Works Order gave Network Rail the legal rights to proceed with Bicester and Aylesbury to Bedford. The East West Railway Company was created by Dft to promote the railway through to Cambridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Transport and Works Order gave Network Rail the legal rights to proceed with Bicester and Aylesbury to Bedford. The East West Railway Company was created by Dft to promote the railway through to Cambridge.

You’re getting ahead of things. They are still at the application stage for the TWA order. The public inquiry doesn’t start until next year...

 

[eastdyke]

The are too many 'East West Rail' bodies!

The TWAO Application was submitted by Network Rail on behalf of East West Rail Alliance who will build the western section. This is apart from East West Rail Company Ltd. who are supposedly charged with running the railway when complete (separately from NR!).

EastWestRail Consortium, the Local Authorities, Business Groups etc. is the public facing driver of the project.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

You’re getting ahead of things. They are still at the application stage for the TWA order. The public inquiry doesn’t start until next year...

I'm sure I read that on a Government web-page. I'll have another look, but apologies in advance if my memory is playing tricks on me.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm sure I read that on a Government web-page. I'll have another look, but apologies in advance if my memory is playing tricks on me.

They probably added a huge dollop of spin. There’s been about half a dozen announcements for every single step of progress so far.

Definitely still at application “Under consideration” stage on TWA order unit’s listing here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rd-improvements-transport-and-works-act-order

 

[aylesbury]

The whole project is taking to long to come to fruition, work should have been in progress after all its been around for over twenty five years. Are the DFT trying to slow things down particularily Bedford Cambridge or is the number of house builders awaited then they can be tapped for funds?

 

[hooverboy]

The whole project is taking to long to come to fruition, work should have been in progress after all its been around for over twenty five years. Are the DFT trying to slow things down particularily Bedford Cambridge or is the number of house builders awaited then they can be tapped for funds?

I don't think it's the the housebuilders....I think there is much money to be had by the lawyers and planning comittees for having endless consultations and meetings(about meetings)
that is ultimately what is slowing the process down

if I were a conspiracy theorist-think about it, it is the ultimate heist.
Under law there is meant to be a consultation of sorts,fair enough.

so if you are legal mafia- you:
1)ingratiate your placemen into said boards of consultation
2)employ agitants to create objections(nimbys/radical environmentalists etc)
3)deliberate as long as possible while raking in public money for consultation
4)return indecisive verdict with a few amendments to argue over at a public consultation about the consultation.
5)rinse and repeat 2-4.

What's more, when pressed for answers, they will reply with a public statement that "these concerns have been taken into consideration and discussed at length",
They are not wrong!-it's a classic political answer which is sort of true but not in the way most people interpret it at first glance.
meaning a-(the public perception): it's because we care about public concerns, your opinion matters
meaning b-(the private one): we're milking it and talking endlessly about trivialities because it's a nice little earner


Frankly the only way you will get a quick,decisive solution in these meetings is to have the SAS interrogation sqauds referee them and place the participants in stress positions until someone cracks

 

[bspahh]

I don't think it's the the housebuilders....I think there is much money to be had by the lawyers and planning comittees for having endless consultations and meetings(about meetings)
that is ultimately what is slowing the process down

if I were a conspiracy theorist-think about it, it is the ultimate heist.
Under law there is meant to be a consultation of sorts,fair enough.

so if you are legal mafia- you:
1)ingratiate your placemen into said boards of consultation
2)employ agitants to create objections(nimbys/radical environmentalists etc)
3)deliberate as long as possible while raking in public money for consultation
4)return indecisive verdict with a few amendments to argue over at a public consultation about the consultation.
5)rinse and repeat 2-4.

This is not the thread for a discussion for or against Brexit.

However, I think its going to be hard to get private investors to commit large amounts of money for building the line between Bedford and Cambridge, which earns nothing until it is completed, just as the government is releasing a report on how deep the recession is going to be.

 

[richieb1971]

In the grand scheme of things EWR isn't really that hard to put into place, its a big budget project, but its not out of the UK's league in any shape or form. I'm not even seeing any political throw backs.

I've also mentioned the bottlenecks which EWR incur earlier in the thread where the junctions at major stations that are already busy will just make situations worse. And Bedford in particular seems to be one of the stumbling blocks because there isn't a clear cut way to implement a through route through Bedford utilizing the current station. If Bedford was situated where an unused previously mothballed track existed I feel that EWR for the central section would have gathered more traction by now. If we are contemplating the possibility of the western section slowing down that's an incredible statement in itself. We can do better than this.