NoOnesFool
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ECML major disruption (03/08)
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I was on the train that brought down the wires - got on at Berwick at 7:13. The onboard staff were great: honest about what was happening, and the fact it would take a long time for us to complete our journey. LNER control seemed pretty hopeless. It took 2.5 hours before they requested Hitachi engineers from Peterborough. Then during a shift change at HQ there was a failure to handover. I heard the train manager patiently explain that we could not move forward as the windscreen had gone. This was several hours after we had come to a halt. Just some observations from someone outside the industry. But given the frequency with which this is happening on the ECML there needs to be a plan, surely?!
Monkeyhead
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Yeah, currently in Grantham, full and standing, train being inspected by an Hitachi engineer. She’s proper fed up, but I bet the staff can’t wait to see the back of today….
Failed Unit
Established Member
I noticed some diverting via Lincoln but not many. Is crew knowledge that low for the joint line? I know you need to be self powered. But some trains such as the 1127 Lincoln - Peterborough (terminated Newark) and 1006 London - Lincoln (sat at Peterborough for ages) could have both used the joint so I assume the crew didnt sign it.
TheBigD
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Happy to be corrected, but it's Doncaster and Leeds crews that sign the Joint line via Lincoln. Newcastle crews definitely don't.
Some Kings Cross guards used to (still do?) but the drivers don't. London just sign the Newark to Lincoln section.
As I said, happy to be corrected.
Not only limited crews signing the Lincoln route, but lots of crews out of position and/or out of hours. So inevitably crew won't will be where they would be most useful. Or where they should be even on the original plan!
Two incidents just made it worse of course. I have a colleague been trying to get back from EDB to NNG this afternoon, been supporting as best i could. Not fun to be caught up in for sure.
Two incidents just made it worse of course. I have a colleague been trying to get back from EDB to NNG this afternoon, been supporting as best i could. Not fun to be caught up in for sure.
I
The OHL was hanging damaged and crashed through the front windscreen.
The pantograph that was in use has slight damage (renders it inoperable) but remains fully attached to the train.
When it did eventually move, it moved using its other available pan.
Firstly Hitachi sent a fitter within minutes of train being stranded, they had to go by road due to services blocking line.
Secondly the train was without OHL power, there was also damaged power lines behind the train.
That all had to be made safe before the train could return north.
Also failure to handover in control? Where is your proof? There had been people in there done 14 hour shifts today due to this, full handovers and a long crossover period with all teams.
It’s pantograph wasn’t ripped off the roof.
The OHL was hanging damaged and crashed through the front windscreen.
The pantograph that was in use has slight damage (renders it inoperable) but remains fully attached to the train.
When it did eventually move, it moved using its other available pan.
Firstly Hitachi sent a fitter within minutes of train being stranded, they had to go by road due to services blocking line.
Secondly the train was without OHL power, there was also damaged power lines behind the train.
That all had to be made safe before the train could return north.
Also failure to handover in control? Where is your proof? There had been people in there done 14 hour shifts today due to this, full handovers and a long crossover period with all teams.
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Failed Unit
Established Member
Thanks. I always wonder if it is worth making that a full diversion route. But then even if these incidents happened once a week, it probably still wouldn’t be worth the investment. (Even before you talk about wires).
I have seen them divert Lincoln - London via the joint before. Put probably down to luck the driver happens to sign it.
Mitchell Hurd
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Definitely - that line's pretty unreliable for overhears wire or infrastructure issues. Not fair on passengers!
800001 is correct in that there was not a failure to hand over in the literal sense. They are also correct re the fitter.
What there was, was a rapidly evolving situation, with the availability of the infrastructure, crew and units varying as time passed.
Today was an exceptionally tough day to manage, and I take my hat off to all in LNER Control today, as well as all other staff involved in the various ways.
In the interests of balance, it’s also true that not everything ran as well as the Controllers intended it would, and also that a lot of passengers were affected through the day, a number in a very significant way - however all that was fundamentally unavoidable circumstances - there are base plans for events such as these, but they need to fit round each individual incident(s).
You can be sure that there will be a review, and that comments from the teams on the ground (both customer facing and not) will be factored in.
What there was, was a rapidly evolving situation, with the availability of the infrastructure, crew and units varying as time passed.
Today was an exceptionally tough day to manage, and I take my hat off to all in LNER Control today, as well as all other staff involved in the various ways.
In the interests of balance, it’s also true that not everything ran as well as the Controllers intended it would, and also that a lot of passengers were affected through the day, a number in a very significant way - however all that was fundamentally unavoidable circumstances - there are base plans for events such as these, but they need to fit round each individual incident(s).
You can be sure that there will be a review, and that comments from the teams on the ground (both customer facing and not) will be factored in.
But no where in your post did you say that this was based on you hearing a conversation between TM and Control.
Your post comes across as you stating that as fact!
DanNCL
Established Member
I’m pleased that there will be a full review into what happened today, as clearly the response to this disruption, whilst I’m sure it was done with the best of intentions and may well have been the best of a bad set of options, it hasn’t worked out as it should.
It’s worth bearing in mind that the reasons for something not working as it should could contain some, all or none of internal factors, external factors or unfortunate circumstance. Not all of those will be visible ‘on the ground’ - sometimes only the end result is apparent, for better or worse.
I also wouldn’t underestimate the sheer volume of work involved, especially with very little pause for breath available for 12 or more hours, sometimes with lone working on a desk, and a poor deck of cards meaning a ‘least worst’ option has to be gone with.
That said, yes, reviewing a major incident like this is a good thing, which if done correctly will normally provide learning points for the future.
Regarding the heatwave, all I’ll say at this juncture is that I’m sure a similar internal review will be part of the post-process. I don’t really want to comment further on that.
I also wouldn’t underestimate the sheer volume of work involved, especially with very little pause for breath available for 12 or more hours, sometimes with lone working on a desk, and a poor deck of cards meaning a ‘least worst’ option has to be gone with.
That said, yes, reviewing a major incident like this is a good thing, which if done correctly will normally provide learning points for the future.
Regarding the heatwave, all I’ll say at this juncture is that I’m sure a similar internal review will be part of the post-process. I don’t really want to comment further on that.
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DanNCL
Established Member
To give LNER control credit they do seem to persevere with trying to keep people moving during disruption a lot longer than many other TOCs do. TPE for example seem to give up even attempting to run anything north of York the second there’s the slightest issue, often whilst LNER are managing to run all of their services (albeit with short delays).
That was a seperate Track Circuit and points failure at Holgate Jn which caused only the Up Leeds/Down Leeds to be available for the rest of the evening.
They say if it breaks it breaks badly
Wallsendmag
Established Member
Strange because the control messages are very clear.
As Wallendmag says, strange, as the route messages have been very clear that this issue has been ongoing since roughly 5am, clear list of cancellations, and clear off additional stops on the services that are running.
As usual, the complete Horsham Thameslink service appears to be cancelled on the south side of London, other than a shuttle to Three Bridges.
Most stations were put into disruption mode and there have been repeated messages about the OHLE problems (just outside King's Cross, which stranded 2Y98 last night for some hours) that has limited capacity into and out of the station.
For some time, the power was off right up to Hornsey and Bounds Green depots, adding to the chaos - but services have been running and will run until at some point I expect they'll be attempting to repair in time for the evening peak.
Ticket acceptance is arranged with other TOCs and bus operators.
A clip of part of the evacuation of 2Y98 is at https://twitter.com/erinmarysmith/status/1555037930674159616?s=20&t=RS-n1JAF35zlais-NmCpig
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I am not able to see into the future! At the time of writing there were only a couple of cancellations. The situation you set out really isn't good enough - however I guess it is understandable if not excusable when industrial relations and morale are so poor.
Newcastle don’t, I’ve been on one stood.
Afaik, 0730 LCN - KGX: Doncaster Driver and TM
1127, 1324, 1527, 1727, 2025 are all Kings Cross Driver and TM
1906 KGX - LCN is Leeds Driver and TM
Failed Unit
Established Member
LNER seemed to be better with their communications the GTR to be fair (This really can't have helped them recover from yesterday)
I planned to get the 0755 WGC - Moorgate, which was showing on the app, realtime etc as running. This was a little odd when you looked at the arrivals and everything coming north was cancelled. However it was of course possible that they had a train in WGC depot to cover the service. At the time I left home the 0740 was "Delayed". When I arrived at WGC they were in disruption mode so only trains they knew were running were on the monitor. I got the 0752 London Kings Cross service as this was the only one on the monitor going South. It left passengers behind at both Hatfield on Potters Bar. However the apps were still showing the 0755 and 0825 as running (the both eventually got cancelled after showing "delayed" first). An additional stop was made at 0827 at WGC on a Peterborough - Horsham service, but again that was shown very late.
I am not sure if these issues are actually with the feeds from into the journey planners as clearly GTR control had made these decisions. But it wasn't until you got to the stations you could see the full picture.
They were updating Twitter, but even with the refreshes it was often old news. (I lot of people don't like them updating twitter).
Things happen, but for me as a passenger I would like to look at a journey check 20 minutes before the trains I am due to take leaves. I am not sure if the IT systems can be updated that quickly.
Disruption mode purposely hides all services until they're confirmed as running. Unfortunately some apps will continue to show trains as on time, especially Moorgate services that aren't linked to an inbound. Disruption mode prevents people getting their hopes up, but you can't stop people using apps!
There are some limitations on what other info can be shown in disruption mode so when the service improves, it should be turned off as quick as possible.
There are some limitations on what other info can be shown in disruption mode so when the service improves, it should be turned off as quick as possible.
Presuming the relevant sticky threads in Railway Jobs & Careers are still up to date this is the state of play with LNER route knowledge by depot (drivers first then guards in the second quote):
Basher
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I was caught up in the troubles
Due to catch 18.20 from KX to Darlington. I did not receive any text to say there was a problem, I just happened to check national rail website.
So I made my way to St Pancras (did think about going to Manchester from Euston then Transpennine) early and caught the 17.05 EMR to Sheffield, that was fine, I was feed and watered. Arrived at Sheffield and my instinct said catch a train to Leeds, then a Transpinene to Darlington. I asked an important looking man in a uniform for information. He said catch the next train to Hull change at Doncaster, the problem was fixed, so would be able to catch a LNER. The journey from Sheffield to Doncaster was fine, then the nightmare started.
Still no trains running ECML, had to hang around to about 10.30 pm, a train came in just manged to squeeze in and stood all the way to Darlington arriving just before midnight ( I was travelling 1st class and it looked as if the train had been declassified if that's the correct term). Then my next problem (I was expecting this) getting out the car park at Darlington, put my details into the box, and the display said I had been in the car park since the 2 JUNE 22. So I go through all the problem with a voice at the end of box to get out. Almost every time I park I have a similar problem. I think it is due to sometime ago I paid my exit fee and the barrier was not working and was in the up position, so the auto recognition did not pick my registration up.
On top of that one of the roads I was to use was closed so a road diversion was in operation.
My claim is in for the refund ( I will buy a pint with it).
Due to catch 18.20 from KX to Darlington. I did not receive any text to say there was a problem, I just happened to check national rail website.
So I made my way to St Pancras (did think about going to Manchester from Euston then Transpennine) early and caught the 17.05 EMR to Sheffield, that was fine, I was feed and watered. Arrived at Sheffield and my instinct said catch a train to Leeds, then a Transpinene to Darlington. I asked an important looking man in a uniform for information. He said catch the next train to Hull change at Doncaster, the problem was fixed, so would be able to catch a LNER. The journey from Sheffield to Doncaster was fine, then the nightmare started.
Still no trains running ECML, had to hang around to about 10.30 pm, a train came in just manged to squeeze in and stood all the way to Darlington arriving just before midnight ( I was travelling 1st class and it looked as if the train had been declassified if that's the correct term). Then my next problem (I was expecting this) getting out the car park at Darlington, put my details into the box, and the display said I had been in the car park since the 2 JUNE 22. So I go through all the problem with a voice at the end of box to get out. Almost every time I park I have a similar problem. I think it is due to sometime ago I paid my exit fee and the barrier was not working and was in the up position, so the auto recognition did not pick my registration up.
On top of that one of the roads I was to use was closed so a road diversion was in operation.
My claim is in for the refund ( I will buy a pint with it).
Not sure if there’s been any pictures of the unit on here, but there’s some on Twitter:
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