Edinburgh & The Lothians Council Tender Services

[iij]

Tendering for the new service provision for the Lady Nairne and Dumbiedykes areas will now start to be progressed.

Plans for new supported bus services in west Edinburgh

Proposals for five new supported bus services in the west of Edinburgh are set to be discussed at the Transport and Environment Committee next week (Thursday 23 May).

www.edinburgh.gov.uk

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Personally I think using the numbers I suggested would allow for a bit of continuity and a bit of grouping the numbers together in certain areas.

Apparently the route numbers will be 1A, 2A, 3A etc.. which I think makes it ultra confusing with other existing service numbers, plus it makes it seem pretty lazy personally.

Tendering for the new service provision for the Lady Nairne and Dumbiedykes areas will now start to be progressed.

Plans for new supported bus services in west Edinburgh

Proposals for five new supported bus services in the west of Edinburgh are set to be discussed at the Transport and Environment Committee next week (Thursday 23 May).

www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Well at least they haven't forgotten about those areas, hopefully they will be prioritised soon.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Apparently the route numbers will be 1A, 2A, 3A etc.. which I think makes it ultra confusing with other existing service numbers, plus it makes it seem pretty lazy personally.

These were the tender numbers for the tendering process. The full numbers were 'SBSR_1B', etc.

The suffixes referred to variations in running hours and frequencies between options. The tenders were 1-7. Recommended tenders are 1A, 4A, 5A, 6A & 7A. Numbers 2A/B were used for Edinburgh to Ratho and number 3 was used for Ratho to Edinburgh/Gyle (Full route peak times and evenings). Obviously they didn't opt for either due to cost.

The route numbers will not be the tender numbers.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Apparently the route numbers will be 1A, 2A, 3A etc.. which I think makes it ultra confusing with other existing service numbers, plus it makes it seem pretty lazy personally.

Apparently there’s an (unsurprisingly) inaccurate article on Edinburgh Live where someone has done the usual 2 and 2 together to make 5 and come up with as you said. As @Bus9120UK says, route numbers very much TBC.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Apparently there’s an (unsurprisingly) inaccurate article on Edinburgh Live where someone has done the usual 2 and 2 together to make 5 and come up with as you said. As @Bus9120UK says, route numbers very much TBC.

I saw a similar article recently titled something along the lines of "critical Edinburgh bus routes axed from next month" or whichever month the current registrations end; interestingly the Facebook post of the story seems to have been deleted.

There's also this one from a few days ago:

The five new bus Edinburgh Lothian bus routes planned for the city
The routes are yet to be approved

(sic)
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/NLo4c5vWVGz6kxNT/

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think today is the day the five routes are going to be discussed in greater detail.

I think today is the day the five routes are going to be discussed in greater detail.

Anyone got any info from yesterday's meeting?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Anyone got any info from yesterday's meeting?

It was about 5.5 hours in so they quickly approved it and moved on to get through everything remaining in the meeting.

From two accepted addendums -

Notwithstanding this, agrees that securing a direct Ratho to city centre service will be a key aim when these contracts are retendered.

Council will therefore look to investigate the possibility of a combined bus/tram through ticket from Ratho to the city centre via A8/Gyle and combined bus through ticket via Hermiston Park and Ride that will only cost £2, and report back to committee within one cycle.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The ticket option could prove to be a good incentive for passengers in Ratho, might even encourage higher patronage!

I'm still surprised there hasn't been anymore information coming out from this, nothing from VOSA or Lothian.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The ticket option could prove to be a good incentive for passengers in Ratho, might even encourage higher patronage!

I'm still surprised there hasn't been anymore information coming out from this, nothing from VOSA or Lothian.

For July 14th they'd need to be registered by the end of the week, otherwise it'd be short notice. They wouldn't show for a short while after that either.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

For July 14th they'd need to be registered by the end of the week, otherwise it'd be short notice. They wouldn't show for a short while after that either.

It wouldn’t surprise me if these were to go through as short notice in a few weeks. It’s quite common with subsidised routes.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

For July 14th they'd need to be registered by the end of the week, otherwise it'd be short notice. They wouldn't show for a short while after that either.

That makes more sense, I would feel that the sooner they announce these routes to the public the better.

For July 14th they'd need to be registered by the end of the week, otherwise it'd be short notice. They wouldn't show for a short while after that either.

Well I'm guessing we still have to wait a little longer.

 

[Bus9120UK]

That makes more sense, I would feel that the sooner they announce these routes to the public the better.



Well I'm guessing we still have to wait a little longer.

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM0000002/630 New	LOTHIAN BUSES LIMITED	20	The Calders	Chesser
PM0000002/631 New	LOTHIAN BUSES LIMITED	32	Cramond	Balerno

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM1050765/84 New	EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED	71	Gyle Centre	Queensferry
PM1050765/83 New	EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED	70	Gyle Centre	Hermiston Park & Ride

Note - they are registered for the 30th and not for July 14/15th.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM0000002/630 New	LOTHIAN BUSES LIMITED	20	The Calders	Chesser
PM0000002/631 New	LOTHIAN BUSES LIMITED	32	Cramond	Balerno

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM1050765/84 New	EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED	71	Gyle Centre	Queensferry
PM1050765/83 New	EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED	70	Gyle Centre	Hermiston Park & Ride

Note - they are registered for the 30th and not for July 14/15th.

Interesting, so we got the 32 back!


Also interesting choice for East Coast Buses to take on the 70/71, although I assume it will actually be Lothian Country.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Interesting, so we got the 32 back!


Also interesting choice for East Coast Buses to take on the 70/71, although I assume it will actually be Lothian Country.

When you search up the license number it says East coast buses it says Lothian Country under the trading name.

 

[Bus9120UK]

When you search up the license number it says East coast buses it says Lothian Country under the trading name.

I had thought this name is dating back to the former Lothian Country buses operation?

Worth mentioning the 32 via points do include Heriot-Watt University.

 

[danielhogg2005]

I had thought this name is dating back to the former Lothian Country buses operation?

My mistake, it must relate to to old name as further research into it revealed that it was the EastCoastBuses operating licence so no clue as to how it will work.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Worth mentioning the 32 via points do include Heriot-Watt University.

It must just be doubling back on The Avenue like the 63 currently does.

Well I called the return of the number of 32, just the wrong route!

Should just be enough Lothian vehicles for 20 and 32 - 3 needed plus ideally a 4th spare. Central does have a lot of 7900’s for the 1/2, possibly enough slack to let a few go. Really 12-13, 29-30 would be my suggestion.

As for the 70/71. I’d leave this open to ideas. This really could be anything.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I had thought this name is dating back to the former Lothian Country buses operation?

Worth mentioning the 32 via points do include Heriot-Watt University.

To be honest, I'm assuming it will be Lothian Country, otherwise it doesn't make any sense as to why East Coast will be doing dead runs to Queensferry or Ratho, sure we will find out in due course.

That is interesting, to be honest it's a missed opportunity if they don't serve Heriot-Watt, maybe they are planning to run via the university commercially.

Well I called the return of the number of 32, just the wrong route!

Well it's good to see the old route number return, I guess it will be nice to accommodate the 31 along Maybury Road.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

That is interesting, to be honest it's a missed opportunity if they don't serve Heriot-Watt, maybe they are planning to run via the university commercially.

I think the issue now though is the 3 or 4 minutes in each direction it will add to the running time. That adds up and the timings on the 32 will be stretched. I’d expect Cramond to be a one way loop to help with this too.

 

[NorthClyde320]

My mistake, it must relate to to old name as further research into it revealed that it was the EastCoastBuses operating licence so no clue as to how it will work.

The East Coast Buses licence was renamed around the time Musselburgh and North Berwick depots were acquired, prior to this it was named Lothian Country Buses for the 113 and 104 services and prior to this it was named Edinburgh Shuttle for the Airport minibus operation. Could this possibly be the East Coast and Lothian Country licences being merged into one with 2 trading names? Further discussion in the appropriate Lothian thread?

 

[stevenedin]

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM0000002/630 New	LOTHIAN BUSES LIMITED	20	The Calders	Chesser
PM0000002/631 New	LOTHIAN BUSES LIMITED	32	Cramond	Balerno

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM1050765/84 New	EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED	71	Gyle Centre	Queensferry
PM1050765/83 New	EAST COAST BUSES LIMITED	70	Gyle Centre	Hermiston Park & Ride

Note - they are registered for the 30th and not for July 14/15th.

They could work the 70 and 71 into the current Lothian Country network. They could run an X40 the full route from St John’s Hospital to Royal Infirmary then run a part route from there to Hermiston Park & Ride and do that for how many buses are required on the 70. At the other end they could run 72s up to Kirkliston and then change them into either 43s or 71s.

 

[mb88]

They could work the 70 and 71 into the current Lothian Country network. They could run an X40 the full route from St John’s Hospital to Royal Infirmary then run a part route from there to Hermiston Park & Ride and do that for how many buses are required on the 70. At the other end they could run 72s up to Kirkliston and then change them into either 43s or 71s.

I think it’s more likely they will just have buses doing the 70/71. Something like Queensferry to Gyle, Gyle to Ratho, Ratho to Gyle, Gyle to Queensferry. Driver change overs could easily take place at Newbridge or Scotstoun terminus.

 

[gavin1985]

Question about the new 32 route.

With the fare zones set out by Lothian Country, surely this is blurring the lines massively to what would be a City West zone in Balerno?

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothianbuses.com

To me it seems like this will be a Lothian City fare, which makes things a bit unfair for those in Ratho paying the City West zone fares.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Question about the new 32 route.

With the fare zones set out by Lothian Country, surely this is blurring the lines massively to what would be a City West zone in Balerno?

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothianbuses.com

To me it seems like this will be a Lothian City fare, which makes things a bit unfair for those in Ratho paying the City West zone fares.

Balerno has been established being in the City Zone, with the West of Balerno (A70) being on the border of the CityWest Zone, despite no Lothian Country route running that direction (I'm going by an old network map). While I do get your logic it is how it is established, otherwise the 44 would probably be split and the Balerno end would of been Lothian Country territory.

The CityWest zone has been established for 7 years now, and when Lothian City lost the 20/63 back in 2020 to First it was going to be inevitable that any bus service beyond Ingilston would be Green, otherwise it would break the established fare continuity Lothian have.

To be absolutely fair (pardon the pun), The CityWest zone isn't that much more expensive, (£1 extra for a single, 50p extra for a Dayticket that covers the whole city, and free with the Ridacard). If you make the most of your journey and get the best travel options it works out the better deal, even the £22 weekly tap tap cap covers the CityWest zone.

I think it’s more likely they will just have buses doing the 70/71. Something like Queensferry to Gyle, Gyle to Ratho, Ratho to Gyle, Gyle to Queensferry. Driver change overs could easily take place at Newbridge or Scotstoun terminus.

I think they could even do driver changeovers at Ratho terminus if they really wanted to. It goes with my theory of the services being split at that end, especially to keep the fare zones from going. City-CityWEST-City.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The CityWest zone has been established for 7 years now, and when Lothian City lost the 20/63 back in 2020 to First it was going to be inevitable that any bus service beyond Ingilston would be Green, otherwise it would break the established fare continuity Lothian have.

To be absolutely fair (pardon the pun), The CityWest zone isn't that much more expensive, (£1 extra for a single, 50p extra for a Dayticket that covers the whole city, and free with the Ridacard). If you make the most of your journey and get the best travel options it works out the better deal, even the £22 weekly tap tap cap covers the CityWest zone.

Either way you look at it, it’s still pretty unfair. For example someone in Ratho Station will need to pay £3 to go to the Gyle, while someone in Tranent (which is well into East Lothian) pays £2 on an express bus to reach the City.

Through the way the network has evolved, the fares system is somewhat broken in my eyes. Lots of anomaly’s and imbalances that I would say are pretty unfair to some. Changing it however, would be extremely controversial.

Thankfully the 70/71’s main market is those with the free bus passes, so the pretty healthy fare increase from McGill’s won’t be felt by them. It’s the regular adults that will take the hit, which only make up a minority amongst the users.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Either way you look at it, it’s still pretty unfair. For example someone in Ratho Station will need to pay £3 to go to the Gyle, while someone in Tranent (which is well into East Lothian) pays £2 on an express bus to reach the City.

To be fair I'm not disagreeing with that, in comparison it is pretty unfair, which is why I said that the Dayticket or Ridacard are better value for those types of journeys.

Through the way the network has evolved, the fares system is somewhat broken in my eyes. Lots of anomaly’s and imbalances that I would say are pretty unfair to some. Changing it however, would be extremely controversial.

The best compromise I could see happening is if they made it so that you could travel between City and CityWest zone for £2 much like the ECB fare structure with Musselburgh/Tranent being in Zone B and scrap the CityWest Daytickets making the City Daytickets valid in Queensferry and Ratho on LCB.

Realistically I can't see that happening, but as long as folk know about better value options the better it will work out for those regular commuters.

 

[NorthClyde320]

Either way you look at it, it’s still pretty unfair. For example someone in Ratho Station will need to pay £3 to go to the Gyle, while someone in Tranent (which is well into East Lothian) pays £2 on an express bus to reach the City.

Through the way the network has evolved, the fares system is somewhat broken in my eyes. Lots of anomaly’s and imbalances that I would say are pretty unfair to some. Changing it however, would be extremely controversial.

Thankfully the 70/71’s main market is those with the free bus passes, so the pretty healthy fare increase from McGill’s won’t be felt by them. It’s the regular adults that will take the hit, which only make up a minority amongst the users.

The CityWest zone could be extended so that it covers the Gyle and Hermiston P&R meaning a small overlap of zones in these areas but meaning only 1 zone is needed for Ratho passengers, yes if City travel is needed 2 zones would be needed but it would still work out cheaper than what that have to pay just now with 2 different operators

Question about the new 32 route.

With the fare zones set out by Lothian Country, surely this is blurring the lines massively to what would be a City West zone in Balerno?

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothianbuses.com

To me it seems like this will be a Lothian City fare, which makes things a bit unfair for those in Ratho paying the City West zone fares.

The 32 will be a Lothian operated service though as it is fully in the City zone, not sure if you are mistakenly thinking it will be a Lothian Country service?

UPDATE: The East Coast Buses registrations for services 70 & 71 have been withdrawn and replaced by Lothian Country ones as expected.

 

[gavin1985]

The CityWest zone could be extended so that it covers the Gyle and Hermiston P&R meaning a small overlap of zones in these areas but meaning only 1 zone is needed for Ratho passengers, yes if City travel is needed 2 zones would be needed but it would still work out cheaper than what that have to pay just now with 2 different operators


The 32 will be a Lothian operated service though as it is fully in the City zone, not sure if you are mistakenly thinking it will be a Lothian Country service?

No bud, I am aware it will be Lothian City, but I was getting at how unfair it is when the map for Lothian Country City West effectively puts Balerno right in it.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The CityWest zone could be extended so that it covers the Gyle and Hermiston P&R meaning a small overlap of zones in these areas but meaning only 1 zone is needed for Ratho passengers, yes if City travel is needed 2 zones would be needed but it would still work out cheaper than what that have to pay just now with 2 different operators

Only problem with that is the amount of other services that run via Hermiston P&R and The Gyle.

This is why I still think the 70 will be split at Ratho in terms of runnings, because realistically why would anyone from The Gyle take the 70 all the way to Hermiston P&R when the new 32 will take you there in a much shorter and direct route.

 

[NorthClyde320]

Only problem with that is the amount of other services that run via Hermiston P&R and The Gyle.

This is why I still think the 70 will be split at Ratho in terms of runnings, because realistically why would anyone from The Gyle take the 70 all the way to Hermiston P&R when the new 32 will take you there in a much shorter and direct route.

I don't think it was designed with end to end passenger's in mind, more for giving Ratho residents a wider choice of connections for City travel as a direct City service wasn't feasible.

Hopefully an announcement will be made soon as it is just over 3 weeks away till the new services start.