Electric fences

[Gathursty]

I saw an electric fence at the side of a line and initially I thought isn't that dangerous in case of a derailment but at the same time electric fences are allowed to deter entry.

What's the rules with electric fences on NR boundaries?

The electric fence I saw encloses the industrial estate beside the Southport line immediately after Prescot Lane Bridge in Wigan.

 

[najaB]

I saw an electric fence at the side of a line and initially I thought isn't that dangerous in case of a derailment but at the same time electric fences are allowed to deter entry.

What's the rules with electric fences on NR boundaries?

The electric fence I saw encloses the industrial estate beside the Southport line immediately after Prescot Lane Bridge in Wigan.

Was it a NR-installed fence or a private fence on the property adjacent to the railway? If the latter then I'd guess NR has little say in things.

 

[Gathursty]

Was it a NR-installed fence or a private fence on the property adjacent to the railway? If the latter then I'd guess NR has little say in things.

It's put up by the Industrial Estate's owner.

 

[skyhigh]

Electric fences are (usually) not dangerous and just painful if you happen to be in contact with one when it 'pulses'. To be honest I'd not be surprised if it's just a sign and the actual fence was not electrified...

 

[alxndr]

Is it really dangerous? It'll hurt if you touch it but it won't do any damage.

 

[Gathursty]

Is it really dangerous? It'll hurt if you touch it but it won't do any damage.

I always think of Jurassic Park when I think of an electric fence. So it's not as shocking as that then?

 

[skyhigh]

I always think of Jurassic Park when I think of an electric fence. So it's not as shocking as that then?

The ones farmers use just sting. They don't hurt you.

 

[John Luxton]

The main Lister Drive National Grid Station in Liverpool has an inner electric security fence there are signs up but one would have to get over the ordinary security fence first. Presumably that is there because the station is of strategic importance and if knocked out would probably wipe out power supplies to the city.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I always think of Jurassic Park when I think of an electric fence. So it's not as shocking as that then?

I’ve stood near a badly-insulated farmer’s one in wet and muddy weather and felt something like a continuous low-level wasp sting in the sole of my foot! And that was wearing walking boots and socks.

 

[najaB]

I always think of Jurassic Park when I think of an electric fence. So it's not as shocking as that then?

No, not even close. My brothers used to challenge each other to hold on to a farmer's fence, the challenge being to hold on for longest without getting hit by a pulse (they generally emit pulses every few seconds, rather than being continuously energised). The "loser" would end up with a slightly sore arm, nothing more.

 

[Bevan Price]

It is illegal to use electric fences that could cause serious injury (or worse) in locations that have public access.

 

[alxndr]

No, not even close. My brothers used to challenge each other to hold on to a farmer's fence, the challenge being to hold on for longest without getting hit by a pulse (they generally emit pulses every few seconds, rather than being continuously energised). The "loser" would end up with a slightly sore arm, nothing more.

You can often hear the “click” when as it pulses if there’s anything touching it. We’d use it to confirm it was working, or failing that, touch it with a long blade of grass (or if, you’re a smart horse, a whisker).

 

[SirAlf]

The ones farmers use just sting. They don't hurt you.

Disagree. When I was a lad I was out walking and I decided I needed a slash. Found out the hard way that the current from a farmers electric wire carries through liquid.

 

[najaB]

Disagree. When I was a lad I was out walking and I decided I needed a slash. Found out the hard way that the current from a farmers electric wire carries through liquid.

Naturally some parts of the body are more sensitive than others, but you'd be doing quite well to be able to put out an unbroken stream to conduct the current for any appreciable length of time or distance.

 

[skyhigh]

Disagree. When I was a lad I was out walking and I decided I needed a slash. Found out the hard way that the current from a farmers electric wire carries through liquid.

Which is what I meant - a nasty jolt but no damage to you.

 

[Llama]

The fence in question in the OP is on the far side of a metal palisade fence at the railway boundary, it's been there about 15 years I think. Whether it's still live, I don't fancy sticking my hand through the palisade to check. We do change ends in the siding there (Wigan Wallgate Down Carriage Siding) quite regularly though.

 

[4F89]

Disagree. When I was a lad I was out walking and I decided I needed a slash. Found out the hard way that the current from a farmers electric wire carries through liquid.

I like it.....

 

[Spaceflower]

Electric fences are designed to deter animals from escaping/entering. You wouldn't want them to cause lasting damage, particularly in the first instance.

Farmers fields, fishing lakes and important electricity substations are typical locations.

Kids at school used to grab the farmers electric fence for kicks. I chickened out. Thankfully.

 

[Korea]

...
What's the rules with electric fences on NR boundaries?

Not all property is fenced at the actual boundary. In some instances land acquired compulsorily for railway use is subject to the Railways Consolidation Clauses Act 1845 which requires the railway company (now Network Rail) to maintain a fence along the boundary. It may be that other railways are similarly disposed to do so under their enabling acts.

There is of course a duty of care owed under the Occupiers Liability Acts and there is recent case law in the spirit of the 84 act which I cannot remember at this festive time.

 

[XAM2175]

Electric fences are designed to deter animals from escaping/entering. You wouldn't want them to cause lasting damage, particularly in the first instance.

Indeed - the goal is that livestock learn to be respectful of fences, but not unreasonably fearful.

 

[Annetts key]

I always think of Jurassic Park when I think of an electric fence. So it's not as shocking as that then?

Er, Hollywood / Film / Movie / Television special effects are often over the top compared to real life.

The railways have to comply with the relevant laws of the land / country. Any electrical item that may cause an electrical shock either has to be physically separated (*1) from the public or employees (*2) or designed in such a way that no harm will be caused to a member of the public or employee.

*1 either a continuous barrier/enclosure or a suitable fence, barrier or similar that has sufficient distance such that no part of a human can get close enough to any live conductor to receive an electric shock.

*2 except certain authorised and trained engineering staff.

 

[najaB]

The railways have to comply with the relevant laws of the land / country. Any electrical item that may cause an electrical shock either has to be physically separated (*1) from the public or employees (*2) or designed in such a way that no harm will be caused to a member of the public or employee

You're 100% correct, of course, but it's worth pointing out that there's a post above which says that this fence was erected by the owner of the industrial estate on their land rather by than the railway.

 

[Pigeon]

Electric fence drivers often use ordinary car ignition coils to generate the high voltage. Now when I was little I had a gadget with a 6V battery, momentary-contact switch, condenser, 6V car ignition coil and spark plug all made up on a piece of board. I used to persuade unsuspecting friends to touch the (exposed) HT terminal while I pressed the button. Amazingly they were still friends afterwards.

An electric fence has a timer that makes it put out the same kind of output once every few seconds. If you're a healthy kid then yes it is just a nasty thump. If you're older and less healthy it makes you feel a bit funny for half a minute. If you have a heart condition then it might be bloody lethal, and if you haven't been diagnosed you probably don't know about the risk.

Note that the same ignition coil in a car with the engine running will produce an output which is bloody lethal to anyone, because instead of one isolated thump you get them at a rate of hundreds or thousands a second and even if your interference does stop the engine it doesn't stop quickly enough.

Anyway, I do remember there being at least one electric fence on railway property (I don't think it's still there though) - along the back of the platform at Bescot station. Concrete posts with holes in them and galvanised steel wire threaded through the holes from one end to the other. The posts acted as tolerably good insulators even when it was raining, so what you had was a kind of near-field antenna coupled to the overhead. If you brushed against it you could certainly get enough of a tingle to make you jump.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Electric fence drivers often use ordinary car ignition coils to generate the high voltage. Now when I was little I had a gadget with a 6V battery, momentary-contact switch, condenser, 6V car ignition coil and spark plug all made up on a piece of board. I used to persuade unsuspecting friends to touch the (exposed) HT terminal while I pressed the button. Amazingly they were still friends afterwards.

An electric fence has a timer that makes it put out the same kind of output once every few seconds. If you're a healthy kid then yes it is just a nasty thump. If you're older and less healthy it makes you feel a bit funny for half a minute. If you have a heart condition then it might be bloody lethal, and if you haven't been diagnosed you probably don't know about the risk.

Note that the same ignition coil in a car with the engine running will produce an output which is bloody lethal to anyone, because instead of one isolated thump you get them at a rate of hundreds or thousands a second and even if your interference does stop the engine it doesn't stop quickly enough.

Anyway, I do remember there being at least one electric fence on railway property (I don't think it's still there though) - along the back of the platform at Bescot station. Concrete posts with holes in them and galvanised steel wire threaded through the holes from one end to the other. The posts acted as tolerably good insulators even when it was raining, so what you had was a kind of near-field antenna coupled to the overhead. If you brushed against it you could certainly get enough of a tingle to make you jump.

As someone who has a heart condition, whose parents were born on a farm and walks in the countryside I can confirm that you're not going to die from touching an electric fence!
Even if you have a pacemaker, the "shock" of touching the fence won't affect it.
No farmer wants to harm their livestock, having a lethal fence would be a very stupid thing to do! Animals have heart attacks too.
Electric fences are perfectly safe. Whilst I wouldn't say go out there and hold on to one, I've slipped before now and instinctively grabbed one and you certainly know it's electrified, but you're in no danger at all.
Touching the overhead wires (or anything connected to them) or the third rail would kill you. Heart condition or not. So an electric fence next to railways is a lot safer than the overhead wires on the railway.
So, the answer to the OP is, whilst we have electrified railways, electric fences pose no issue at all.

 

[4F89]

I'd rather deal with an electric fence than razor wire

 

[Spaceflower]

A thicket of Blackthorn is often enough to deter two legged pests

 

[JKF]

I remember as a teenager poking one with a bar to see if it would emit sparks. Didn‘t really think it through.

 

[mrcheek]

Are there any signs on the fence? I expect it's quite common for owners of electric fences to put up signs with exaggerations such as "Danger: 100,000 Volts" to act as a deterrent

 

[DarloRich]

Network Rail wont be putting up electric fences.

 

[alxndr]

Network Rail wont be putting up electric fences.

Not fo boundaries, but there is at least one protecting an overhead line feeder station.