• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Electrification of GWML: some uncomfortable truths

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Metroland

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2005
Messages
3,212
Location
Midlands
moonrakerz said:
I don't think there actually are any "qualifications" in MMGB. the whole area is festooned with self-appointed "experts" (we all know the definition of expert !) who support the "cause" for either political or financial reasons.

Al Gore being the prime example - didn't he do well out of it ?
Click to expand...

Hmn, there are. Many scientists have dedicated their whole lives to it and you can do environmental science A Levels and Degrees. Of course, green issues are not just about anthropogenic global climate change, loss of biodiversity, unsustainable use of resources, habitat loss, water depletion are also part of it.

I happen to agree with James Lovelock, I firmly believe humans are too stupid to deal with it. In evolutionary terms, we have be hard wired with all sort of traits that don't help our cause.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

T

thegrich37423

Member
Joined
28 Mar 2010
Messages
55
Well, some people choose to be judgmental and I can't say I blame them. My opinions are controversial and they are based in concrete fact. I can quote these facts if needs must, but it seems we've reached the point where futility is around every corner.

So I will thank you all for your input and back out graciously before things get too heated...
 
Last edited:
starrymarkb

starrymarkb

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2009
Messages
5,985
Location
Exeter
hmmm, I'd be interested to read these facts? I'd also like to hear what you propose instead of electrification...
 
Greenback

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
If you did quote these concrete facts people might be less judgmental! I am curious as to why you haven't posted them!
 
Greenback

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
I don't know much about climate change, or engines, but I would like to see what facts there are as I would like to learn more!
 
C

ChrisCooper

Established Member
Joined
7 Sep 2005
Messages
1,787
Location
Loughborough
The big problem is that a lot of the "facts" posted have been wrong. It's a well known fact in things like intelligance and policing, and also science, that one false fact can bring all other facts into question. The bit about MTUs and "Compressed Air" ruins the entire argument as it is clearly wrong (the reasons have already been gone over many times). Better arguments that that have been demolished on the basis of far smaller flaws. It works the other way too, a lot of big lies (or guesses) are based on enough truth to get people to buy into the big lie. That's why when making any argument that isn't based totally on indesputable fact, you must make sure that the indesputable facts it is based on are right.
 
Greenback

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
Well, yes, but I'm interested in the concrete facts he hasn't quoted, but says he could if needs must!
 
S

Shrub Hill

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2009
Messages
112
Location
london
we will see how much climate change matters when they have to pay for it and not us! if it was such a major priority i cant help but think that they would have moved quickly to get electric trains running the birmingham - scotland services over an electrified line already in place, if they did electrify the gwml, and thats a big if, they then have to get the stock to run on it, and that wont be a cheap process, no doubt they wont be happy with a standard design , they will have to come up with some revolutionary model that will get you from paddington to swansea in 20 minutes, any longer and they will have to design a toilet for it that actually works and that will cost extra , could utilise the IEP, when they have finished working out how to get a train to run over electric and non electrified lines without the passengers having to leave there seat , i mean having an electric loco and then changing it to a diesel one is far to simple an idea, and all this of course with a 1 trillion pound debt hanging round our necks, we will be bashing hst's for a while yet i feel ,
 
G

Geezertronic

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2009
Messages
4,113
Location
Birmingham
thegrich37423 said:
Well, some people choose to be judgmental and I can't say I blame them. My opinions are controversial and they are based in concrete fact. I can quote these facts if needs must, but it seems we've reached the point where futility is around every corner.
Click to expand...

Where are the concrete facts, everyone reading this thread is waiting with baited breath...

thegrich37423 said:
So I will thank you all for your input and back out graciously before things get too heated...
Click to expand...

In other words, you have no facts and are backing out because you cannot prove your own waffle.

I (and others) await to be proved wrong by you posting proof of these concrete facts.
 
J

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,773
thegrich37423 said:
I can quote these facts if needs must,
Click to expand...

Needs must! Really! They do! "I've got facts, but I'm not telling you what they are" is a rubbish debating tactic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reckon we shouldn't let this rest. Mindyou, he's not been on since one minute after his last post.
 
curly42

curly42

Member
Joined
23 May 2008
Messages
747
I'm afraid I lost interest when the O.P. insisted that H.S.T. power cars were locomotives - although having now read the rest of his post I'm convinced that it's a wind up.
However,put me down as one of the "show us your proof/evidence" advocates.Sadly,I feel we will not be served with that proof.
 
royaloak

royaloak

Established Member
Joined
11 Oct 2009
Messages
1,389
Location
today I will mostly be at home decorating
starrymarkb said:
If Electrification is so bad, why don't you put forward a better suggestion?
Click to expand...
Hydrogen fuel cells, its the future! honest and I also have concrete facts to back this up, well as much as the OP has, I mean he doesnt even know what a turbo-charger is, "forced air" indeed.
Any engine needs fuel and oxygen (in the air) to work, the more oxygen (air) you can get in the more fuel you can burn so the more power you get, so "forcing" the air in (turbo charger, super charger or even both) will give you more power for basically the same over-all weight!

Been reading about group B rally cars that had both turbo and superchargers and were getting 470+bhp from a 1.8 litre engine (lancia delta S4)
 
Last edited:
Greenback

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
jopsuk said:
Needs must! Really! They do! "I've got facts, but I'm not telling you what they are" is a rubbish debating tactic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reckon we shouldn't let this rest. Mindyou, he's not been on since one minute after his last post.
Click to expand...

We must not let it rest! If there are concrete facts, I want to know what they are! If, on the other hand, he was trying to make a dignified retreat, and is unable to back up his claims, he should have the decency to admit it! I for one would respect him more if he came clean either way!
 
TGV

TGV

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2005
Messages
734
Location
320km/h Voie Libre
royaloak said:
Been reading about group B rally cars that had both turbo and superchargers and were getting 470+bhp from a 1.8 litre engine (lancia delta S4)
Click to expand...

I used to work on indycars. Cosworth used pre-compressor injectors on the turbos and in qualifying trim were getting well over 1000bhp from a 2.6 litre engine. At Indy in 1994, Ilmor were nudging 1200bhp with a pushrod V8!!!

Of course the old F1 qualifying engines would get over 1000bhp from a 1.5 litre, but it would only do a couple of laps like that. The Ilmor pushrod did 500 miles at over 220mph! Astonishing engineering.
 
TGV

TGV

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2005
Messages
734
Location
320km/h Voie Libre
It's quite obvious that HST "locomotives" grow on concrete trees. But the government has too much hydrogen to keep it a secret so they're using MTU's magic compressor to get rid of it.

No wait... I think I've got confused there, but I *know* I'm right.

If you've just scrolled to this messgae in the thread, you might be a little confused. Have a read of what went before... and you'll still be none the wiser to be honest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top