Elizabeth line reliability issues

[mrmartin]

Seems to be major reliability problems on EL recently, maybe related to the recent software update. 3 failed trains I think today and yesterday.

Also today there was no passenger information systems working whatsoever when I was on it this afternoon, either above the platform doors or in the station entrances, which seems mad given there was live data on RTT available!

 

[Taunton]

Seems to be major reliability problems on EL recently, maybe related to the recent software update. 3 failed trains I think today and yesterday.

Also today there was no passenger information systems working whatsoever when I was on it this afternoon, either above the platform doors or in the station entrances, which seems mad given there was live data on RTT available!

This does seem something that came in with the new software, that it just drops back to a generic "all subject to delay and/or cancellation" message on the screens, as I have commented here before. Notably it was exactly the same on last New Year's Eve, and an insider wrote on here that this had been worked on all day by technical staff but to no avail. In the core one is reduced to looking at the destination on the trains themselves as they run in, which are accurate - but not the easiest to see through platform doors. It does seem the interface between the operations side (trains/where RTT gets it from) and station displays is the issue.

 

[Basil Jet]

I saw an out-of-service 345 in platform 1 at Paddington around midnight last night. I thought they only used high-numbered platforms! (and platforms A & B, obviously)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Apart from internal EL problems, there were delays today between Acton and Southall because of extra freight train movements resulting from the Nuneham closure.
Two of these impeded my journeys, one on the WCML (Wakefield-Southampton via Walsall/Stechford and Acton Wells), and one on the GWML (Oxford-East Usk via Greenford).
Later I was on an EL service from Heathrow T4 to Abbey Wood. It was delayed to 12 late at Hanwell, but managed to reach Abbey Wood on time, such is the slackness in the current schedule.

 

[Horizon22]

Major issues with the software and timetable this past week. As most signalling, information and train reports feeds through this it has a huge knock on impact on the rest of the line as well as rendering most customer information completely useless as attempts to fix it have led to duplication.

Appears to be out of TfL’s direct control and in the hands of the contractors for Crossrail - a project supposed to finish next month!

 

[mrmartin]

As far as I can tell there was no CIS at all at any EL station today. At least from what I saw at TCR, Paddington and Liv St. Even worse; the "departures" boards were just showing nothing - no 'error' state - which made it look at first glance like there were no trains whatsoever. The platform indicators did say that information was unavailable at least.

Frankly cannot understand this state of affairs given RTT and other sites were showing data - maybe more complicated for the on platform displays as they need to be properly synced in time to avoid confusing people (though a bit suspect given the platform staff were announcing the trains based on the map, which I assume is powered by something similar to what Traksy uses), but surely the 'next departures' board could have a backup feed from the NR API data rather than just showing nothing?

 

[Horizon22]

As far as I can tell there was no CIS at all at any EL station today. At least from what I saw at TCR, Paddington and Liv St. Even worse; the "departures" boards were just showing nothing - no 'error' state - which made it look at first glance like there were no trains whatsoever. The platform indicators did say that information was unavailable at least.

Frankly cannot understand this state of affairs given RTT and other sites were showing data - maybe more complicated for the on platform displays as they need to be properly synced in time to avoid confusing people (though a bit suspect given the platform staff were announcing the trains based on the map, which I assume is powered by something similar to what Traksy uses), but surely the 'next departures' board could have a backup feed from the NR API data rather than just showing nothing?

Yes the issue is screens needing to be synced in real time. That feed is essentially ‘corrupted’ it seems. There is no backup feed in the way you suggest - it is not connected in the same way as the rest of the NR network because it is different infrastructure which is why it fails so spectacularly. It’s quite technically complex and multiple systems need to sync up to work correctly - if that fails with the timetable upload it will be wrong throughout the day, which is pretty much how it works on all NR routes overnight at 0300, just better!

I gather the best thing is to blank the screens as opposed to them be incorrect as I have seen happen at other stations during major disruption.

It’s being escalated to a very high level at Crossrail and TfL.

 

[mrmartin]

Yes the issue is screens needing to be synced in real time. That feed is essentially ‘corrupted’ it seems. There is no back up feed - it is not connected in the same way as the rest of the NR network because it is different infrastructure which is why it fails so spectacularly. It’s quite technically complex and multiple systems need to sync up to work correctly - if that fails with the timetable upload it will be wrong throughout the day, which is pretty much how it works on all NR routes overnight at 0300, just better!

I gather the best thing is to blank the screens as opposed to them be incorrect as I have seen happen at other stations during major disruption.

It’s being escalated to a very high level at Crossrail and TfL.

But RealTimeTrains is showing live info right now, even though the CIS aren't? This doesn't make sense to me. The data must be there? To be clear - I understand the platform level displays requiring further syncing. But the general station "departures" boards were totally blank at all stations I went to today, which IMO shouldn't require anything special. A laptop with RTT auto refreshing every min would be infinitely more useful than what they have had today.

Also, my point with the blank screens isn't that they should have wrong data - they should show 'sorry we can't show departure data right now', rather than a totally blank screen, which makes it look like there are no trains, esp late at night!

 

[Horizon22]

But RealTimeTrains is showing live info right now, even though the CIS aren't? This doesn't make sense to me. The data must be there? To be clear - I understand the platform level displays requiring further syncing. But the general station "departures" boards were totally blank at all stations I went to today, which IMO shouldn't require anything special. A laptop with RTT auto refreshing every min would be infinitely more useful than what they have had today.

Also, my point with the blank screens isn't that they should have wrong data - they should show 'sorry we can't show departure data right now', rather than a totally blank screen, which makes it look like there are no trains, esp late at night!

I didn’t see them blank? I saw a sign which said “live information isn’t available” or similar. Obviously if there are no trains people wouldn’t be let into stations!

 

[mrmartin]

On the platforms or the station entrances? Platform door indicators said no information available, the more general station departure boards were totally blank apart from saying "Departures"

 

[Horizon22]

On the platforms or the station entrances? Platform door indicators said no information available, the more general station departure boards were totally blank apart from saying "Departures"

On the platforms.

 

[majarex]

On the platform, I think.

 

[DC1989]

I've had more issues this week than in the previous (almost) year put together.

Today I got to Whitechapel and the board were only showing Shenfield trains so I assumed there was another broken down train on the abbey wood side (as happened earlier this week) and decided to go back to Stratford and get a DLR.

Of course if they even had some basic WiFi or 4g in the underground station and tunnels I could have checked my phone and realised that the boards were just wrong.

 

[Goldfish62]

Of course if they even had some basic WiFi or 4g in the underground station and tunnels I could have checked my phone and realised that the boards were just wrong.

WiFi is available at all stations. I've used it for the very reason that you state you want to use it.

 

[DC1989]

WiFi is available at all stations. I've used it for the very reason that you state you want to use it.

I had it briefly at Whitechapel for a couple of weeks a month or so ago but it's gone since then.

 

[Goldfish62]

I had it briefly at Whitechapel for a couple of weeks a month or so ago but it's gone since then.

I'd suggest maybe your phone or network settings.

 

[mrmartin]

I've had more issues this week than in the previous (almost) year put together.

Today I got to Whitechapel and the board were only showing Shenfield trains so I assumed there was another broken down train on the abbey wood side (as happened earlier this week) and decided to go back to Stratford and get a DLR.

Of course if they even had some basic WiFi or 4g in the underground station and tunnels I could have checked my phone and realised that the boards were just wrong.

Yes exactly my experience. WiFi is also patchy IME, requires manually disconnecting and reconnecting sometimes (seems much more of an issue than other TfL stations - maybe the lengths of the platforms cause problems). Can't believe there is still no 4G at least in the stations. Beggars belief really, combined with the perpetual issues with CIS, when this was hyped as a 'digital first' railway, and the most basic stuff isn't working/done like it has been since the 90s in many cities.

 

[Taunton]

Beggars belief really, combined with the perpetual issues with CIS, when this was hyped as a 'digital first' railway, and the most basic stuff isn't working/done like it has been since the 90s in many cities.

As I understand it the operational software is Bombardier while the information describers are Siemens. It does seem that there was possibly too much Crossrail money sloshing around, and instead of simple and reliable technology they went for some absolute whizzy clever interfaced stuff, which just does not hang together, and possibly gets issues when one supplier upgrades and the other doesn't.

The presence of "ghost trains" on the describers that do not exist seems to show that they somehow believe the timetable too much, instead of just showing what is actually running. We have been having "stand clear" of trains which are not there for months now - this seems a particular problem, somehow believing there are nonstop trains running. I have never seen such in the core, but over recent times have had several messages about one passing, even when the doors are open on a train in normal service. I think the Underground perfected the technique of passing accurate next train etc indications on from station to station about 100 years ago. It's not as if the Elizabeth service pattern is complicated - the District Line must have been more so for generations.

 

[ValleyLines142]

WiFi is available at all stations. I've used it for the very reason that you state you want to use it.

I can never connect to it.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Display boards at Abbey Wood are being useless. I arrived there 10 mins ago - 14:48. The station displays were showing next Elizabeth line train at 15:17 so a half hour wait (!!!). There was a train on platform 3 which a check on the national rail app showed was probably the 14:54 departure for Reading. So I took the chance and hopped on it and it has indeed just left at 14:54.

Not sure how many people on the platform didn't get on the train because of the wrong information on the displays but a fair few were standing by looking confused when I got on it

 

[mrmartin]

The station displays (NOT the platform level ones) are what I cannot understand. They are wrong or blank, when every other app/site can show data. What is the deal with that?

 

[Taunton]

Couldn't the station staff just be issued with a laptop with Real Time Trains, a blackboard, and chalk? They could borrow some Victorian uniforms from the Bluebell Railway to complete the illusion as well.

 

[Goldfish62]

I can never connect to it.

I've never had a problem.

 

[Acton1991]

I've had more issues this week than in the previous (almost) year put together.

Me too, it’s been horrendous over the past week. And because the screens have been down, the customer service agents are constantly barking down the tannoys and competing with each other on different platforms, alongside the automated announcements.

Yesterday evening at Paddington, one CSA was super aggressive even calling specific passengers out over the tannoy (eg ‘the man with the green carrier bag’) to stop leaning on glass or doing this or that. Total overkill.

 

[Horizon22]

Couldn't the station staff just be issued with a laptop with Real Time Trains, a blackboard, and chalk? They could borrow some Victorian uniforms from the Bluebell Railway to complete the illusion as well.

Possibly, if the wi-fi was reliable.

The issue is Crossrail / Siemens can’t get to the bottom of the problem (both around wi-fi and the timetable). It’s been escalated as high as is feasibly possible, which I think involves engineers in Germany. As someone alluded go up-thread, the timetable upload and information systems have been made far too complex, reliant on too many other factors and is a bottleneck for the reliability of other downstream systems.

The actual train service ran quite well today.

 

[modernrail]

It would have been nice if they had thought ahead to the situation at Heathrow as well. Tannoy announcers barking like crazy instead of some really big indicators of whether next service is HEX or EL etc. Dreadful first impression of our transport system. They should put some calmer announcements in the lifts/on the escalators on a loop.

 

[mrmartin]

Possibly, if the wi-fi was reliable.

The issue is Crossrail / Siemens can’t get to the bottom of the problem (both around wi-fi and the timetable). It’s been escalated as high as is feasibly possible, which I think involves engineers in Germany. As someone alluded go up-thread, the timetable upload and information systems have been made far too complex, reliant on too many other factors and is a bottleneck for the reliability of other downstream systems.

The actual train service ran quite well today.

God knows what they've done to make such a hash of it... you could get most of it working with Traksy esque data pretty easily imo.

 

[Acton1991]

It would have been nice if they had thought ahead to the situation at Heathrow as well. Tannoy announcers barking like crazy instead of some really big indicators of whether next service is HEX or EL etc. Dreadful first impression of our transport system. They should put some calmer announcements in the lifts/on the escalators on a loop.

Heathrow is the worst for this. It’s not needed and so overwhelming. Whatever happened to just having automated announcements?

 

[mr_moo]

I did Paddington to Stratford this morning. It seemed back to normal again for the bits I saw. Glad they have sorted it.

 

[DC1989]

Abbey Wood branch was messed up again today.