Elizabeth Line - why is it still in parts?

[grumpyxch]

Can anyone on this forum tell me why the Elizabeth Line trains from Reading still do not go through to the underground section? Ditto the trains from Shenfield? How much longer before they connect?

Thanks

 

[snowball]

One reason is that a power supply upgrade is required at Pudding Mill Lane, according to this press release:

Anglia rail upgrades to take place at the end of July

Vital rail upgrades are to be carried out at the end of July to extend platforms for new trains and provide power for the Elizabeth Line ahead of the next stage of opening when services from Shenfield will be connected to Paddington station via the City of London and the West End.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Vital rail upgrades are to be carried out at the end of July to extend platforms for new trains and provide power for the Elizabeth Line ahead of the next stage of opening when services from Shenfield will be connected to Paddington station via the City of London and the West End.

The works will take place on Sunday 24 July and will affect passengers travelling to London from Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex and Cambridgeshire. Passengers are advised to check before they travel.

The work is vital to support the growing number of passengers returning to the railway and includes:

• A power upgrade at Pudding Mill Lane near Stratford that will provide power for the Elizabeth Line services.
• Work to lengthen platforms on the West Anglia main line to accommodate 10-car trains

The next phase of opening the Elizabeth line will integrate services from the east and west into the new central tunnels and stations bringing additional benefits to those travelling to and from the east and west. This connection brings the three railways together and enables services from Reading and Heathrow through to Abbey Wood and from Shenfield through to Paddington. The service in the central stations between Paddington and Whitechapel will be 22 trains per hour during the peak and 16 trains per hour off peak.

Buses will replace trains on the Great Eastern main line between Ingatestone and Liverpool St, and on the West Anglia main line, buses will replace trains between Bishops Stortford and Waltham Cross, and also between Hertford East and Waltham Cross.

 

[306024]

Still? It has only just opened!

It was always the plan to operate the line ‘in parts’ to start with. Get the brand new bit of the railway opened as a self-contained system to shake out any issues and get everything to bed down, before moving on to joining up with the east and west. There is more experience to be gained before moving on to the next stage.

If all goes well, there is talk of sometime in September for services to link up, GE services to Paddington and GW services to Abbey Wood. However the transition between the different signalling systems needs to be reliable first before that step is taken.

Quite simply this railway is so complex in signalling terms, you wouldn’t want to do everything at once, that would be planning to fail.

 

[swt_passenger]

This post in the existing thread also attempts to explain signalling aspects:

Through running of Elizabeth Line between Shenfield / Stratford and Heathrow / Reading

I can't find an open thread covering this - apologies if it's covered elsewhere. It would be good to understand: What outstanding activities are required prior to through running (eg route learning?), how long they'll take, and when they're going to be completed, What outstanding...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[danielcanning]

Still? It has only just opened!

It was always the plan to operate the line ‘in parts’ to start with. Get the brand new bit of the railway opened as a self-contained system to shake out any issues and get everything to bed down, before moving on to joining up with the east and west. There is more experience to be gained before moving on to the next stage.

If all goes well, there is talk of sometime in September for services to link up, GE services to Paddington and GW services to Abbey Wood. However the transition between the different signalling systems needs to be reliable first before that step is taken.

Quite simply this railway is so complex in signalling terms, you wouldn’t want to do everything at once, that would be planning to fail.

All this ‘we need time to get everything bedded down’ is just an excuse, trains have been running right the way through for months. The real reason why services are running in three parts is that if something does go wrong no one wants the blame…

 

[306024]

All this ‘we need time to get everything bedded down’ is just an excuse, trains have been running right the way through for months. The real reason why services are running in three parts is that if something does go wrong no one wants the blame…

I’m afraid all you’ve done there is show a total lack of understanding of what is actually involved, although posts like these do make me smile. See. I guess there’s no point in explaining further though if it is all going to be dismissed as an excuse, makes me wonder why bother to respond on here. Anyway here is a link to todays testing

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=XR

Reliable it wasn’t.

 

[grumpyxch]

Well one bit of info I hadn't known about was that the Shenfield trains will only be running to Paddington - or I have I misunderstood? I thought they too would go to Reading.

The other thing was that press release from Network Rail. It seems to mix two different subjects into their announcement - Elizabeth Line (Pudding Lane), and West Anglia (platform mods) - or are longer West Anglia trains also going onto the Elizabeth Line underground section?

 

[306024]

Well one bit of info I hadn't known about was that the Shenfield trains will only be running to Paddington - or I have I misunderstood? I thought they too would go to Reading.

The other thing was that press release from Network Rail. It seems to mix two different subjects into their announcement - Elizabeth Line (Pudding Lane), and West Anglia (platform mods) - or are longer West Anglia trains also going onto the Elizabeth Line underground section?

The next sage is to run to Paddington, then Heathrow at a later date. Running the full length from Shenfield to Reading is a bigger performance risk, which has emerged with various timetable modelling.

Yes the NR press release is a bit confusing, and no, GA trains will not be going down the hole.

 

[JonathanH]

are longer West Anglia trains also going onto the Elizabeth Line underground section?

That wouldn't be physically possible even if desired.

 

[Watershed]

Running the full length from Shenfield to Reading is a bigger performance risk, which has emerged with various timetable modelling.

It hardly takes modelling to work that one out! Though I guess the modelling helps to illustrate the scale of the problem.

That wouldn't be physically possible even if desired.

To expand on that, there's no connection allowing trains to get from the Pudding Mill Lane portal to the West Anglia lines at Stratford. There are crossovers but they're further west than the portal.

 

[Sonik]

Quite simply this railway is so complex in signalling terms, you wouldn’t want to do everything at once, that would be planning to fail.

I agree

It is taking longer than hoped but I think the gradual and cautious staged introduction of services is entirely the correct approach. The central section, even running separately, is still a huge convenience for many travelers and the public/media reaction to the new stations, trains etc. has been overwhelmingly positive.

Given the complexity, the alternative of a rushed full opening would be to risk almost inevitable multiple delays and reversions to split services while bugs are ironed out, with resulting inconvenience to travelers and bad PR. Management of public perceptions is essential if we want to see continued investment in transport infrastructure. Remember what happened when the APT was pushed into service when the technology was clearly not ready.

 

[Snow1964]

Part of it goes back to a decision over a decade ago, when the timeline gant charts were being developed to ensure the longest processes were started sufficiently early. The then team understood the complex stations would take long time to dig and fit out, but completely missed the software and signalling development time.

Having decided on new era of signalling for part of a route, they didn’t understand that interfacing it with existing systems (and making it reliable) would take getting on for 9 years so didn’t start it early enough.

The multiple phases for the trains were originally based on using 7car trains in East, and allowing time to lengthen them after platforms 16 & 17 had been done at Liverpool Street, before introducing a more intense service, at a date that coincides with National Rail timetable change. It was not really supposed to be to allow late development of signalling phases and auto reverse at Westbourne Park

Bond Street not being open is currently holding up the next phase, it will now open with phase 5B minus (22 trains per hour peak, 16tph off-peak with services Abbey Wood-Heathrow and Shenfield-Paddington). Haven’t heard of start date, but late October or November was last I heard suggested.